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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bob D.:
    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Plainsman:
    Reminds me of the doo-rag wearing harley zombies. Talking all about made in america, somtime flip over a few parts in the harley shop for their country of origin.

    My GMC truck was made in Canada, my Dodge in Mexico. Only thing truck wise I could buy made in the US was the Toyota. What do you do. Seems the lines blur a lot, made in America, corporate holding in X country.
    You can check this list for US made vehicles. There are plenty of choices besides the toyota.
    I think you gave up to easily in your search for a US made vehicle.

    http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/cartruck2006.cfm
    </font>[/QUOTE]Sure I could have bought a compact truck but I needed a truck to work, tow and a 6' box. Sadly there are no heavy trucks on that list that dont have "*"s.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by plumber:
      Bob D,

      I think Plainsman did not look or try to look. My GMC 2500HD LT 4x4 was made in the USA with I think it was 86% American made componoents. It was either 86% or 94%. My Ford F150 xlt 4x4 had the tag listing the other percentage and I cannot remember which truck had which tag but both were made in USA. And both percentages are substantial. The Avalanche and all of its twins including the Cadillac model are the only GM trucks not made in North America. Ford shuttered a Mexican truck plant a few years ago because the cost savings did not

      Some manufacturers are moving production here like Toyota and Nissan. Some foriegn manufacturers here might use Americans to assemble their products but nearly 100% of the parts are brought in from over seas. Even the overseas part is not so bad as long as the parts come from a free and Democratic nation.

      Its also pretty bad when foriegn companies are starting to come here because so many States have cheap labor. Yet some American companies are leaving the even cheap labor states because cheap is just not cheap enough. They want free or slave labor.

      The edited part: The first paragraph should have finished; cost savings did not offset the quality problems.
      Let me know the starting vin on that 2500HD, my friends have 2 (a DMAX and 6.0), both start with "2" denoting Canada as does my 1500HD.

      My 97 Ram was built in mexico, I think that was a "3".

      Sure you can buy a Ranger/Mazda B, or other little trucks US made but not the 'real' trucks.

      Comment


      • #33
        Plumber I try to buy american all I can. I wear red wing boots for example, and their quality is second to none. Unfortunatly I have to buy other foreign products for other needs.

        I have a Kawasaki ATV and Yamaha motorcycle. Both have no competitive models in the US. If you did deeper Artic Cat uses Zuk engines and Polaris has its Fuji (sp). ACat uses Kawi engines in its ATVs as well.

        What really gets under my skin is the Harley zombies and their "american made" bit. They are as American as a Nissan or Tundra, both assembled in the US from foriegn made parts.

        As far as Unions, just ask how great they are to anyone living in NYC [img]smile.gif[/img] Or how well it worked out for my uncle at NWA after 30 years of service.

        Comment


        • #34
          VIN numbers beginning with a 1,4, or 5 denote a vehicle manufactured in the United States. A VIN number starting with a number 2 denotes a vehicle made in Canada, our good, free, Democratic neighbors and cousins to the north.

          My GMC 2500 HD 4x4 LT was made in Flint Michigan with a North American content of either 86% or 94 %. My Ford was made in Kansas City. Both are good heavy trucks that would meet the needs of any American. Also it is good that you have purchased products from Canada. They are friends and neighbors worthy of trade and do not have nuclear missles aimed at our heads.

          There is no need to get into a pro or anti union discussion on this site. Its not the place for it. Regular readers of the plumbing forums at the top of this site should be able to surmise my stand on the issue. But I do not harp on it as you seem to relish harping against it. However, its a safe bet the ten thousand new work place widows in China last year wish their husbands had been allowed to work safely. And probably the estimated 1/2 million children currently working in sweatshops across the globe wish their parents earned enough money so they would not have been forced to work 12 hours a day in dark damp factories with no lunch breaks for pennies(Making things for the smiley face store) but maybe not.

          Its probably a sure bet that the 70 year old greeter in that smiley face store wishes he had a decent Union pension so he could spend his final days with dignity instead of standing in a little assigned box on a solid concrete floor all day long for chicken feed. Maybe thats the world you are wishing for this Christmas, it sure seems as though those with your train of thought are getting their way.

          But hey its a free country, so support communism if you want to. Just know that I never will and neither should any other American.. MHO

          One last question, what kind of motorcycle does Nissan make?
          Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

          Comment


          • #35
            My point was things aren’t black and white. Just because its GM doesn’t mean its using American's to produce the product. It’s very difficult to buy only American. As my previous posts suggest I try to buy American as much as possible. You’re smart enough to understand the point on Harley-Nissan. Your wallyworld communism illustration was below the belt, but people are quick to attack personally when they run dry intellectually. I’m glad this is a country where people like you are free to call others communist and anti-American when they disagree with your sentiment, but if you said that to my face we could very likely have a strong parting of the waters. I certainly am not a communist nor anti-American.

            One last comment on another great American company I have dealt with is Craftmade Ceiling fans, superb product and customer service. That’s why my new home has 3 more.

            Your right this isn’t the forum to chat about this stuff, this is where I talk about the cool projects I do with my tools. I’m happy to have my tools and happy to be alive and healthy this holiday, peace.

            [ 12-23-2005, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Plainsman ]

            Comment


            • #36
              I'm sorry, I've tried to restrain myself from posting in this increasingly silly thread, but this just snapped the last straw for me.

              Many of the posts I see here indicate a vast support for communism.
              What in the world are you talking about?? No one has said they support communism in the slightest. If you interpret buying something from China as "supporting communism," you are making so many illogical leaps that it would take an entire page just to list them all.

              It certainly is about choice. Its a free country. China is not. The slaves who work there either do it for the pennies they are given or they are shot or they dissappear. If they dare even say they want to be free they are gunned down in the street in broad daylight.
              What in the world are you talking about?? Have you done any research on this, or are you simply repeating the rhetoric you've heard on Fox News?

              Incidentally, how many people has the American government killed lately (abroad and at home)? Oh, wait, let me guess...it's okay to kill people as long as you get to pick who's bad enough to deserve death, right?

              But hey guys what do I know I am just some "do rag" buy American patriot who actually respects the flag he flies over his home rather than wear it like a dress.
              So you're saying that because you proudly fly an American flag, that means that your argument has more merit? Why is it that Americans resort to patriotic flagwaving and jingoism (you know what jingoism is, right?) rather than actual argument (and I say this not as a Canadian, where I live now, but as an American born and bred)?

              I actually think you have some good points to make when you're not spewing rhetoric...can't you make them without simply saying "look at how patriotic I am"?

              It's easy to throw around words like "freedom" and "flag" and "liberty" and so on just to make yourself sound more righteous. But as Plainsman pointed out (and believe it or not, I agree with YOUR stand on some points, not his, although I respect his difference of opinion), the China/USA/world economy is NOT a simple black-and-white issue of "us" versus "them", much as you might wish it was! There are all sorts of nuances and economic interrelationships that make it impossible to make it so cut and dried. Large sectors of the American economy are tied up in Chinese investment, and vice versa. If we declared a total economic embargo on China tomorrow, the American (and world) economy would go into shock.

              I'm sorry...your arguments are incredibly simplistic and based on rallying people around some super-patriotic rhetoric rather than actually saying anything that makes sense and is borne out by facts.

              Dave

              Comment


              • #37
                I was thinking about this a bit today, a retail store should open only containing American made products, that would be interesting.

                In my industry we are constantly pressured by offshoring to India. So we have to work smarter, faster, better, because there are a lot of people today very motivated to shift their country to a first world.

                I know I saw a dateline one night about I think Bejing, it showed 1 year ago and today, it was amazing the development. They are now trying to build the worlds tallest skyscraper I think too.

                A buddy of mine showed me an internet story where the chinese had such a exact replica of a japanese car that the parts were interchangable, the funny thing is the chinese were going to patent it. I would bet China is soon to be the next software epicenter too like India is today.

                Comment


                • #38
                  canadave,

                  I have no qualms about all imports and do not think I am more patriotic than everyone else. In fact I encourage free and fair trade between all true free and Democratic nations. The flag remark was due to the the do ragged zombies and buy American remark as if that was something to be ashamed of... the nuances of nuclear missles aimed at our heads is not an economics science. 50% of all Chinese industry profits go directly to military spending in China. The Chinese military have openly admitted that the war they train to fight is a war against the United States. Canada will suffer as those nuclear missles China lobs at us will affect you as well as us. China has been entering into one contract after another with Iran, the friendly people who hate us so much. Ask any of China's neighbors if they are a friendly people. Ask anyone particularly from Tibet, After they are done laughing at you they will tell you about what China has been doing and how expansionist they are. If you think stopping trade with communist China is hard now wait ten years and it will be impossible. Then it will be to late.

                  Thats not homilies and bromides, thats not jingoism, thats just reality. Oh and freedom and liberty are not just words. Ask the Chinese people what they are and they will tell you they are things they don't have. We are fighting a war to spread freedom and liberty at least thats the last reason given by our president, and I thought that was important, but i guess freedom and liberty for the people who work in slave factories is just something I say to make myself sound patriotic.

                  And to answer the so called below the belt drivel just before some directly personal insults tossed my way I guess some of you children are too young to remember the Tienamen &lt;sp? Square Massacre of 1989 when of thousands of unarmed young Chinese people who simply wanted to live in a free democracy were machine gunned to death in broad daylight. Guess thats not murder in your eyes. Or the thousands of people who are imprisoned every year just because they wanted to go to church. Or the over ten thousand people a year killed in preventable industrial accidents because human beings and human life are simply not important to Chinese communists. Or the thousands of women who are forced into unwanted abortions by their communist government every year becasue the babies they carry are female. And the smiley face store indeed does sell obscene amounts of merchandise made by child sweatshops across the globe and they indeed employ older workers as greeters and assign them little places to stand on solid concrete all day long. Thats the truth, if its below the belt then put the blame on your "wallyworld" where it belongs.

                  Plainsman you said a large American truck could not be found. I know you are wrong as I own two. They were not hard to find. They are everywhere.

                  And yes canadave I know what jingoism is. And blindly buying Chinese products when there are a host of alternatives available is supporting China, and China is a communist country. If you support trade with China your very act of making that purchase supports communism in a very real and emperical way. Thats not jingoism thats the cold hard fact of the matter. The Chinese communist military have direct control of over 50% of Chinese factories. They control 50% of the profits from Chinese production.. They also have the largest standing army in the world. Thats not silly or increasingly silly, actually it is increasingly silly when you realize that so many people think giving their money to the communist military while free people are losing their jobs doesn't matter.

                  China probably does have an exact replica of a japanese car. They pirate and steal most ideas from other nations. You can buy rip off tools and generators and hosts of other products made in China all over this country as China does not respect nor does it enforce any other nations copyright laws. But just because you can does not mean you should. Look at your child tommorrow morning under the Christmas tree. Now imagine him in a Chinese factory making that same toy he is so gleefuly playing with. A child the same age just spent 12 hours of a day making that toy last summer. He'll go home to a tin shack for 6 hours of sleep before he goes back to work the next day. Is that what you want for America's or for Canada's future? Support and defend that silliness all you want. But don't call me silly or insinuate I am ignorant because I won't support or sit silent while we are overwhelemd with communist goods and sweatshop products. MHO

                  If everyone wants I will post the economic trade figures and imbalances with communist China. I can post about Chinas monetary policy and how it unfairly affects trade prices. If you guys want to get into that I am happy to oblige. The title of this thread would allow that to be and still stay on topic. We can discuss industrial accidents and how they are preventable and what happens to Chinese workers when they complain to their supervisors. There is nothing I write about that cannot be backed up with cold hard facts.

                  We can get into links of Chinese generals speaking about war with us or their murder of thousands of innocents because of their simple desire to be free. The Chinese government is not a group of warm cuddly, teddy bear loving, nice people wanting us to have cheap goods because they like us. Like sargent Friday used to say; "just the facts mam."
                  Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Happy day plumber! My VIN does start with a "1", I was wrong. I thought it was a "2" because it came from Canada when I tracked it from the factory. Not sure what those Canadians were doing with my truck before I accepted delivery....

                    So what do your VINs start with? God help us if it starts with a 3.

                    Now that I have an American made truck I feel much more confident in agreeing with you to nuke China preemptively. Maybe Ill trade the sport bike for a V-Rod too. Or wait I think there was some German technology in that engine, they have been bad apples too once upon a time.

                    Its astounding to me that you don’t buy anything from China since you think people who do are communists. Why would you be on the power tools forum of Ridgid?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I could be wrong, but Ridgid does have an American address, and it is an American based/founded company is it not?
                      Plainsman, if this indeed is true, pressure from customers/supporters, such as Plumber, should indeed be considered from Ridgid as far as where some of their manufacturing occurs. Whether or not it should be part of this thread may be debated but it must be said. The proof is in the pudding though somewhat. Ridgid has developed a somewhat crappy reputation to date for quality issues with their power tools stamped "Made in China." Milwaukee has developed a rock solid reputation with their power tools stamped "Made in USA" (or other free nation they make their tools in).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Reading through the above posts I couldn't help but add my two cents. It's not about nationality or nationalism, it's about being a consumer and wanting the most value for our hard-earned dollars. Earn high, buy low is the best way to improve ones standard of living, and I don't know many people who don't want to live well. That being said, I think there are a coupld of things which must be taken into acount in this, perhaps ill posted, discussion.

                        First, companies, except charaties, are driven by profits, for it is profits which allow them to hire workers and to pay salaries and benefits. As workers demand higher salaries and better benefits, profits must rise to compensate. Since profits are the difference between costs and revenues, revenues must rise and hence prices go up. A cycle started and perpetuated by the workers themselves.

                        Secondly, remember, those very companies that are having tools made in far-away lands are run and administered by our own people.

                        Thirdly, many of the companies mentioned - Bosch, Makita etc foreign companies with international offices.

                        Finally, since we live in a Global economy, the costs of raw materials - plastic, steel, wire etc are relatively the same around the globe. The other input, and sometimes beiggest portion of a finished product, labour varies drastically from place to place. Thus, comapnies, driven by profits, must look to reduce labour costs. Believe it or not, the labour rates in Asian countries are rising and those people's standard of living is improving - a good thing. This is why companies are now moving manufacturing to Mexico and India - where labour costs are still lower.

                        So, all this to say, based on one's purchaing power and level of nationalism, we should buy the products and services that we feel good about, and stop complaining about things that are a direct and cummulative result of the purchasing decisions we have made. [img]smile.gif[/img]

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Those Milwakee tools are very nice, but cost prohibitive for me anyway. Im just a hack and not a professional, so I dont live and die by my tools either.

                          I totally agree that the world will catch our standard of living and things will rebalance. Isnt some of the reason gas is so high because China is quickly going though an industrial revolution?

                          Notice companies like Dell pulling out of India because it didnt meet their cost savings expectations. If you run a business you just keep shopping around for the best deal, just like Joe consumer.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            i had a coworker that had a bumper sticker that said "out of work eat your inport". for a long time he bought things made in usa only. now he is not finding things he wants made in usa so he is buying made in ??????
                            Charlie

                            My seek the peek fundraiser page
                            http://observatory.mountwashington.o...nal&fr_id=1040


                            http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php

                            new work pictures 12/09
                            http://public.fotki.com/hvachawk/

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Kelco
                              Reading through the above posts I couldn't help but add my two cents. It's not about nationality or nationalism, it's about being a consumer and wanting the most value for our hard-earned dollars. Earn high, buy low is the best way to improve ones standard of living, and I don't know many people who don't want to live well. That being said, I think there are a coupld of things which must be taken into acount in this, perhaps ill posted, discussion.

                              First, companies, except charaties, are driven by profits, for it is profits which allow them to hire workers and to pay salaries and benefits. As workers demand higher salaries and better benefits, profits must rise to compensate. Since profits are the difference between costs and revenues, revenues must rise and hence prices go up. A cycle started and perpetuated by the workers themselves.

                              Secondly, remember, those very companies that are having tools made in far-away lands are run and administered by our own people.

                              Thirdly, many of the companies mentioned - Bosch, Makita etc foreign companies with international offices.

                              Finally, since we live in a Global economy, the costs of raw materials - plastic, steel, wire etc are relatively the same around the globe. The other input, and sometimes beiggest portion of a finished product, labour varies drastically from place to place. Thus, comapnies, driven by profits, must look to reduce labour costs. Believe it or not, the labour rates in Asian countries are rising and those people's standard of living is improving - a good thing. This is why companies are now moving manufacturing to Mexico and India - where labour costs are still lower.

                              So, all this to say, based on one's purchaing power and level of nationalism, we should buy the products and services that we feel good about, and stop complaining about things that are a direct and cummulative result of the purchasing decisions we have made. [img]smile.gif[/img]
                              i agree with kelco.. and whether we like it or not, the so called "communist china" is here to stay..

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                After reading many of these threads I feel the need to chime in.

                                I too look for products Made in America whenever I go shopping. I often go away without a purchase if I am unable to find a product Not made in America. This goes for tools as well.

                                What it all comes down to is, where , do YOU, want to spend YOUR, hard earned dollars. I really do not want to spend mine in China for many reasons already explained, but, I have less problem with Mexico, Japan, or Germany for example. If I have to pay $10. or $50.00 more for an item made somewhere other than China, I will. Period. I spend my money the way I want to. I care about the American worker and our way of life. If noone buys things made in China or any country, I guarantee that the corporations will be back here in the blink of an eye. The controlling factor is US, the consumer, both here and abroad.


                                As far as the general public, I think that it is evident that I am in the minority in my thinking.

                                I know this is the wrong place to post this, but I am just following the thread.

                                The best to all, -ED

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