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how much for that saw???

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  • how much for that saw???

    alot of you want your tools built only in the usa.a friend of mine works for the r&d dept for black and decker here in maryland.and to build one of there skill saws would cost us around $330.00 here is why.motor 115 v 13 amp 4800 rpm $52.00(already $7.00 more than the saw is worth)trigger $19.75 steel for the graud $9.50 plastic for the main case would cost almost$22.00(yeah that surprized me too)gear set $20.00 plastic for the case if one would be supplyed$15.00(differnt type of plastic used here) now we are up to around $140 or so and there are so many parts here i didnt even list it isn't even funny also this doesnt include and labor or shipping costs that go with these items and this is also just the price to build just one saw not 1000s of them but i thought this might be just a small clue in why the tools are made where they are made not that i like it i just understand it thats all
    9/11/01, never forget.

  • #2
    Then you understand nothing,OSC. All of Porter cables tools were made right here until last year. They are some of the best out there and reasonably priced. Black and Decker bought Porter Cable and shut the plants down. now they are made in China. They did not cost that much to make here. Black and decker is just like a lot of other companies. They cost them 50 to build and sold them for 70.=20 profit. NOW from China, cost them 20 sell for 70 = profit 50. Nothing but greed involved in the whole thing.
    info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

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    • #3
      all i did was quote what a very good friend of mine has told me.as for how much truth is there only he knows that.i can only repete what was said to me and i also stated that that is the price to make just one saw not 1000s and 1000s of them.as we all know if you buy one tire for your car it may cost you $100 for one if you buy 4 you might get the forth for free i am sure it works the same way with all the parts i spoke of eralyer as well
      9/11/01, never forget.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by papadan:
        Then you understand nothing,OSC. All of Porter cables tools were made right here until last year. They are some of the best out there and reasonably priced. Black and Decker bought Porter Cable and shut the plants down. now they are made in China. They did not cost that much to make here. Black and decker is just like a lot of other companies. They cost them 50 to build and sold them for 70.=20 profit. NOW from China, cost them 20 sell for 70 = profit 50. Nothing but greed involved in the whole thing.
        Again I'm against going out of this country to build anything but let me ask you a question. If you can buy a Porter Cable drill made in the US for $100 or buy the same drill made in China for $80 which would you buy? Most will buy the China drill.

        If your a company and you make a drill for $50 bucks and sell it for $100 but lose sales to another company selling drills for $90 and you find you can make the drill in china for $20 and sell it for $80 undercutting the competition and make more profit do we call that greed or good business? Or do you keep making the drill for $50 but sell it for $80 then answer the stock holders that want to know why profits are dropping?

        I know we all want US tools at china prices and want all the jobs we have lost to come back to this country. But until we learn that increased salary without increased productivity eventually means lost jobs to countries that can make it cheaper.

        We have gotten on this artifical merry go round where we get automatic salary increases, followed by increase in costs, followed by more demands for salary increases, followed by more increase in costs. The only thing that is accomplished is things that cost $1 30 years ago now cost $10. In fact in most cases while we have increased salaries without increasing production we have managed to increase costs even faster.
        Rev Ed

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        • #5
          I'm reading more into papadan's reply.
          1) Jobs that were once here are now gone.
          2) The employees that supported themselves, the community
          and their families had their jobs taken away.
          3) The U.S. worker is able to produce a high quality product
          for reasonable costs.
          4) B&D the company who once was American made decided
          The heck with the U.S. worker, let's make more money
          and move the jobs overseas. The same company who took American jobs away, hopes that same American worker will purchase their products.

          it all gets kinda ugly.

          [ 06-22-2005, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: jaco ]

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          • #6
            You got it Jaco! RevEd, one problem with your opinion. B&D along with many others are making higher profits by sourcing out to countries like China, but they are not reducing prices to the consumers. There are 3 classes of tools on the market today. Junk class= tools for someone that has not got a clue what a tool is.EXAMPLE 18v cordless drill set.$14.99 at Big Lots. Next is homeowner class, lower price and quality but decent for homeowners and hobbiest. EXAMPLE Black & Decker, Ryobi. 18v cordless for $59.00 Then you have the Proffesional class, made for serious DIYers and Pros. Milwaukee, Dewalt, Bosch and Ridgid.Example 18v Cordless drill $150 and up. All of these tools are being made overseas now, at a lot lower cost to the companies. But we are still paying the same prices for the tools.Just my observations and opinions.
            info for all: http://www.hoistman.com http://www.freeyabb.com/phpbb/index....wwtoolinfoforu --- "I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me."

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            • #7
              As an anecdotal aside, 25 years ago, I was a designer at Rockwell International. We made all of the stationary power tools known prior and after as “Delta.” One of our last projects was to combat the influx of far east low-cost competition by coming up with an ultra low cost (that’s manufactured cost) 15” 6-speed, floor consumer model drill press. Our target was to build this drill press for under $150 in our Bellefontaine, Ohio plant of US parts. This was at a time when our professional grade drill presses (still seen in high school shops and manufacturing facilities across the country) cost around $450 to build.

              We could not do it. We compromised the design so much, that we ended up with what field trials deemed “crap, junk, s**t, toy tools,” etc. It had fewer and lower quality bearings, bushings instead of bearings, plastic covers instead of steel, ¼ HP motor instead of ½ HP, fixed table, no-name chuck instead of Jacobs, etc.

              Meanwhile, we went down to the local Farm & Fleet and purchased a Taiwanese made 15” 6-speed drill press with ½ HP motor, dual ball bearings, heavy duty chuck, steel covers, cast iron table, base, and machined column, tilting table with rack-and-pinion height adjustment, and generally built of fairly good quality parts. We paid full retail of $149.95. A few months later, they closed the doors of the plant, and a few years later, Rockwell sold Delta and Porter-Cable to Pentair.

              Sometimes, you just can’t compete with product made here. I doubt it is any better today. The margin on consumer goods is quite low when compared to other specialty tools and products.
              Steve
              www.MorrisGarage.com

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              • #8
                Welcome to the global economy, Times have changed!! Get out of the 60's and 70's. Learn to make it to your advantage, Buy China Products sell them to Europeans and keep the profit in the US. Pretty Funny but it works.
                Measure twice...Cut once..I always forget that one!

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                • #9
                  This is a very serious problem and it goes well beyond tools. 98% of all clothing sold in the US today is not made in this country. And now China is getting into appliances, such as ovens, refrigerators and washing machines as well. Automobiles are also coming. And watch them eventually develop a commercial airplane capability that competes with Boeing and Airbus.

                  There is a solution that has been around for centuries and it is called import tariffs. But our government does not impose them due to either existing trade agreements, business lobbies, public resistance or fear of reciprocal tariffs being imposed on our exports.

                  Our businesses are also enticed by a big carrot called the Chinese market. The theory goes that as the Chinese become more prosperous and develop a middle class by selling us a ton of stuff that a huge market for our products will be created. This makes no sense to me, since by the time the market develops they will be able to manufacture everything themselves. I can see it now …“Prosperous Chinese buy US made goods by the boat load and are willing to pay a premium price for it, rejecting products that they make themselves.” Sure!

                  So eventually we will make very little and import just about everything. There is a name for a country that does that. It is called a 3rd world country.

                  I can’t solve the problem, but I try to do my share. When I shop I will pay a premium and sometimes a hefty one to buy a US made product over a Chinese product … IF I CAN EVEN FIND ONE THAT IS MADE HERE.

                  One way I am trying to help is by refusing to buy Chinese router bits. I won't even buy bits from Taiwan. I will buy bits from Italy, Germany or Israel, but not from China. Of course, US made bits are my first choice. They are also the best.

                  Oh, and by the way, did I mention the fact that a large part of the money we are giving to China is going into building up their military. But not to worry everyone, let’s just keep buying their stuff so we can save a few bucks now. We’ll let our children and grandchildren solve the problem somehow.

                  [ 06-25-2005, 02:54 AM: Message edited by: RobH ]

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                  • #10
                    I'm not questioning anyone's integrity here, but there is more than one way to "cost" an item...especially for larger companies.

                    Greed is still a big factor in this equation. When these jobs move overseas, who's really reaping the benefits? The new employees and the remaining top management certainly make out well in the short term. Consumer's might get lower prices, but quality has a different definition now. Quality used to be thought of as built to perform well and built to last. From a manufacturing perspective, quality means built to spec... choosing specs is another factor that's chosen by the "powers that be".

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                    • #11
                      RevED wrote:
                      Again I'm against going out of this country to build anything but let me ask you a question. If you can buy a Porter Cable drill made in the US for $100 or buy the same drill made in China for $80 which would you buy? Most will buy the China drill.
                      I, for one, am willing to pay more for an American made item, if I can find them (mainly to support the American work force) then to just say "oh the hell with it"...."I'll buy this one cause it's cheaper."

                      Yes, I go buy foreign made products, it's inevitable. Though I do check to see where a product is manufactured before purchasing it.

                      The big problem I DO have with the American work force is greed. If we weren't so GD greedy, we would be able to produce more goods here.....but everybody wants more and more money! When is enough....enough?!

                      We need to get off our high horses and start taking a good long hard look at ourselves and ask that very question....."when is enough, enough?"

                      [ 06-26-2005, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: CARPENTERDON ]
                      Dimensional Carpentry & Custom Woodworking
                      Historic Renovations, Restoration, & Custom Log Homes


                      I Beat The Competition Hammersdown!

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