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  • Max HC Batteries

    I too have discovered the spectacular warranty that Ridgid is offering for the new line of power tools. While comparing the torque ratings, etc to those of the Milwaukee i currently own, I noticed that Ridgid is spot on with Milwaukee. What I did not see was an AMP hour rating for the batteries. I haven't been able to find this spec anywhere. I haven't actually gone back to the HD to look at a battery pack yet. Thought I would ask if anyone here knew first.
    fwiw.. the Milwaukee packs I have are 2.4 AMP hours, but I seem to burn through the packs at a rate of about 2 every 2 years and at almost 90 bucks a piece that gets spendy.. hence the interest in the Ridgid lifetime warranty.
    thanks,
    josh

  • #2
    Now that you mention it, the mah rating is usually on the battery tag, but it's not on these. Also not specced in the manual.

    I figgered that I don't really need the torque of an 18v, and with two rapid-rate 14s, I wasn't going to run out of batt for anything I am likely to tackle. Plus I was fond of the extra $50 I saved (over the 18v). If I am wrong, please don't tell me for a few days. This thing is cool.

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    • #3
      Mark IV, Glad you like your new RIDGID drill.
      Hope you put it to years of good use!

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      • #4
        So, the amp rating is not on the battery or in the manual. BrandMan, do you know what it is?
        Right now, not knowing this is the only thing stopping me from buying the 18v 4 piece combo kit.
        thanks
        josh

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        • #5
          RIDGID Standard Battery Pack: 1250 mAh
          RIDGID MAX HC Battery Pack: 1900 mAh

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          • #6
            For what it is worth, amp hour ratings on batteries are nearly useless information. This might explain its absence on the new Ridgid batteries (though, of course, other explanations for the admission are equally possible).

            If you take a storage battery (such as a G27 or G31 flooded cell) and take a close look at the amp-hour rating, you'll see that it is a closely defined term: it means the number of amp-hours that the battery will put out (when new) if discharged at exactly 5% of the value until the nominal terminal voltage reaches 10.5 -- a depth of discharge that should never be reached if you expect the battery to last very long. Therefore, as defined, you can never get 100 amp-hours out of a nominal 100 AH battery.

            If you do a little more research, you'll find that the number of amp-hours you can get out of the same battery is much lower if the discharge current is higher (and vice versa).

            By definition, cordless power tools impose a very high current drain on their batteries, far above the 20-hour (5%) rating value.

            Now the batterie on cordless tools are all NiCads or NiMHs, and while the chemistry is different and the curves take a slightly different shape the principles are the same. AH ratings tell you nothing. The thing to do with cordless tools is to have two or three batteries and a charger that will recharge them faster than you can use them up (taking into account lunch break and time spent hammering). If you do that, then you will have absolutely no interest in AH rating.

            [ 09-30-2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: RGad ]

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            • #7
              thank you for the information.
              i hope to be the proud papa of a new set of tools soon [img]smile.gif[/img]
              josh

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              • #8
                From the Ridgid Web site (http://www.ridgid.com/MenuDriver.asp?ParentID=492):
                "Our batteries are all hi-capacity NiCd 2.0 Amp hour cells. Pair these powerful cells up, in the Voltage of your choice, with our Rapid Max chargers and you have all the power and performance that you expect from RIDGID in a durable package that will work as hard as you do."
                Which is the right information here? Based on this it sounds like both battery types carry the same 2.0 Amp Hour cells which wouldn't make any sense. If amp hours aren't a good comparison of battery life then what is? Is their any other performance comparisons between the Ridgid battery life and similar competitors? PC, Bosch and Dewalt upperlines all use 2.4AH batteries. While I do agree that a fast charger can make up for any amp-hour difference, I would like to know what I am getting for my money and how far the tool will go before I need another pack.

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                • #9
                  Guys Here is the deal. Amp hours give you more power. Power is measured in Max Watts Out. MWO is what is important when determining torque. The more MWO the motor produces the more torque that can be produced. Ridgid offers good torque but what I have noticed guys is the low speed on the ridgid tool is alot lower them Milwaukee and DeWalt. And since Torque and Speed have an inverse relationship...It looks like to me instead of producing more power with a 2.4Amp hour battery Ridgid took a cheaper battery and slowed the speed to match the Torque rating of the top two cordless drills on the market. Guys I have a DeWalt, My buddy has a Milwaukee and I bought a Ridgid to give it a try and Head to Head at 18V the DeWalt did high torque applications faster them the other two. So Amp hours do matter.

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                  • #10
                    Here are the facts, Ridgid, 0-400 485 in/lbs torque. Dewalt 0-450, 450 in/lbs torque. Milwakee, 0-500 500 in/lbs torque. Makita 0-400, 400 in/lbs torque. Bosch 0-400 495 in/lbs torque. All are 18 volt half inch drills. These specs say the MILWAKEE should run slightly stronger than the others. I would expect that if the ridgid were turning 50 more rpm, it would still produce more torque than the dewalt(450 in/lbs torque).Doesn't matter to me tho, I like the looks and feel of the ridgid. I agree that 2 amp hour batteries are a little disappointing, but I believe the 30 minute two battery charger allows you to switch out batteries pretty efficiently. Btw Bo, I wouldn't call the ridgid spinning 50 rpm less " alot lower rpm" and note too that the Bosch and Makita both have the same low speed rpm (400). Another point, different motors have different levels of effiency. Higher effiency motors don't draw as much current allowing them to run longer on a given battery capacity. Where the drills stack up in that category is probably anyones guess.

                    [ 10-07-2003, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: steb ]

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                    • #11
                      I agree with Steb. The efficiency of the drill motor has alot to do with battery longevity per charge. The type of drilling does also. The Amp hour rating is an industry standard for all batteries. While it won't guarantee that a 2.4 AH battery will last longer than another brands 2 AH battery, it gives a good indication of the comparable usable life per charge of that battery. A good example is my 24 V battery from Bosch. While it has a much larger AH rating, it tends to fizzle out faster than my old Dewalt 18v. When I use that same battery in my cordless recip saw, it runs down in half the time. All in all, I haven't seen a huge difference between the brands with batteries in the same class rating. I'm holding my breath though until the verdict is in on this new vented battery idea.

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                      • #12
                        The notion that you can get more power out (in watts) from a battery of greater capacity is not correct.

                        I can take a 2 AH nominal 14VDC battery and weld steel with it (albeit not for very long). That, in fact, is why batteries have plastic caps to cover their terminals when in neither the tool nor the charger.

                        The relationship between nominal battery capacity and power is this: as soon as a load is imposed on a battery, the battery's voltage drops. If voltage drops below a certain point (approximately 80% of nominal), it will no longer turn the tool's motor. The larger the battery, in theory, the larger the load that can be imposed on it for a given voltage drop. That said, howver, the difference in voltage drop as a function of load between a 2.0AH nominal battery and a 2.4AH nominal battery is negligible.

                        This is particularly true under real world conditions. As I said previously, all an AH rating means is that the battery should be able to put out 5% of that rating (in amps) for 20 hours before dropping its voltage to the discharge point (approximately 80% of nominal voltage). For a 2.4 AH nominal battery, the test condition would be a load drawing 0.12 amps. But driving 1-5/8" drywall screws into plywood with a 3/8" drill draws a lot more -- on the order of 8-10 amps. Without having the precise coefficients before me, my guess is that a 2.4 AH nominal battery is only worth about 1/2 to 3/4 AH of usable power at that draw, while a 2.0 AH nominal battery under the same conditions might give 0.4 to 0.7 AH of usable power. No real difference.

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                        • #13
                          Wow - this is a great discussion from a bunch of people who sound like they know what they're talking about. One thing to keep in mind though, is that the manufacturers claim may not tell the entire story. they can arrive at their torque numbers in several different ways. They best way I've seen them compared is when we had a couple of tool reps on our site at the same time. They each claimed that their drill had more torque than the other. So they chucked them up against each other on a drill bit to prove who had more power. Other than that I just say try different drills if you can before buying them. Dewalt used to come to our jobsite to loans us tools to try first. That way you can compare head to head.

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                          • #14
                            Original Message: I know that Rigid/Ryobi have relatively low amp hours compared to other manufacturers. Doesn't this mean less battery cells per battery? What do amp hours have to do with the lifetime/runtime of a battery?

                            Answer;

                            Amp hour rating is the amount of energy the battery is capable of storing. The amp hours of a battery pack has no correlation to the number of cells in the pack. All manufacturers that use Ni-Cad cells have a multiple of 1.2v (per cell) in order to make up to the voltage of the particular tool. (10cells X 1.2 volts = 12 volt battery pack)



                            Amp hour rating does determine the capacity of the cells. However, there are several things that determine the run time of a battery pack. Of these, but not limited to, are the motor efficiency, the efficiency of the gearbox design, as well as the internal losses (resistance) in the battery cells and the wiring of the tool. So, a tool that has 1.5 amp hour cells can run longer or perform more work than a tool with 1.7 amp hour cells if the proper homework was done in the basic design of the tool..



                            I hope you understand this somewhat technical answer to what seemed to be a rather simple question.

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                            • #15
                              Close.

                              It is quite true that the single cell voltage of all NiCad cells is the same (nominally 1.25V).

                              It is also true that the AH (or mAH) capacity of all cells of the same specification is the same.

                              How we make a battery (and the term "battery" technically means a collection of cells, wired togther in series or parallel) determines what the battery's voltage and capacity will be.

                              Two cells wired in series will give a battery with a voltage equal to 2x cell voltage and a capacity equal to 1x cell capacity.

                              Two cells wired in parallel will give a battery with a voltage equal to 1x cell voltage and a capacity equal to 2x cell capacity.

                              Inside the battery, we can wire cells in virtually any combination we like.

                              If we make a battery with 9 1.2V 600 mAH AA cells, wired in series, we will have a 12V battery with 0.6 AH capacity.

                              If we make a battery with 36 1.2 V 600 mAH AA cells, consisting of four groups of 9 cells wired in series, with each group wired in parallel, we will have a 12V battery with 2.4 AH capacity.

                              All values are nominal.

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