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  • #16
    Here's another thing Lorax.

    Don't underestimate the the power of a large corporation to mislead you.

    Where was I going to find a manual so that I could read this ahead of time. Are you aware that reviewers get perks for looking the other way on specs these days?

    This arbor may well have been designed to go into a table top saw. Parts, nay a rather substantial inventory of parts, may well have been just hanging around after a model faze out. So unless, or especially if, you are a hack for the company, you're probably better off not encouraging me here.

    The saw is touted as a professional saw. And they came pretty darned close. Close enough to make the saw appear to be throroughly professional. Top of the line as some people on here have pointed out. Therefore it becomes subject to that standard.

    It's implied that the machine is capable of doing production work every bit as well as it handles making picture frames or whatever you're doing.

    Ya wanna compromise quality? That's your business. Please don't try to foist it on us.

    Start a new thread on how to do HTML or something wouldja?

    Comment


    • #17
      I hit the wall so to speak with this arbor issue and returned the saw. I was not about to do that repair for the for free and still have an arbor that is too short!
      I now have a Beismeyer fence, cast iron trunion cab saw, 1 3/4hp for about the same money, sears 22124, even with a really good blade (Leitz). Orion , the manuf.has excellent CS, the best I have ever had. After this ,I will never buy another Ridgid power tool again. It is a joke, all the mods,taking the saw apart,the time wasted, no repairs centers close buy even in the LA basin, for most of us here, they are few and spread out. The saw does not cut to the reported max. width b/c the arbor is too short unless you like only a few threads on the nut engaged, with all that spinning mass, not for me. The sears 22124 saw is so much better constructed(over 400 lbs) and designed and you can even leave the arbor alone. This "Ridgid professional tool "thing is just hype,I think you all are kidding yourselves or are in denial. I am still in shock with the Milwaulkee purchase by TTI.
      Why would you buy a 3650 when HD had a Delta true contactor saw for $400 now?
      This is not a bash but a warning to others before you buy ,THINK!

      Comment


      • #18
        That Delta Contractor saw is not much (if at all) better than the TS3650. Stamped steel extensions, fence is not as good, bevel and height adjustment handwheels are not as good quality and are smaller. The legs look to be made from heavier gauge steel, and I don't know about the arbor length but even if you give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it will handle a ful stack dado it is not enough to tip the scales in its favor over the Ridgid TS. Other than that its no contest between these two saws. I don't think that the TS3650 is the best saw out there, as I've said before had the Craftsman/Orion 22124 been out or even hinted that is was coming out 14 months ago when I bought m 3650, I would have given it a serious look and most likely spent the extra bucks to bring it home instead of the 3650.

        Comment


        • #19
          Mainman,
          This will be my last post on this subject and then I am going to add you to my ignore list. The following is a quote I cut and pasted from the Freud website.

          "The SD500 Series dadoes were the first dadoes to include a 3/32" thick chipper. This allows the cut width to be adjusted in 1/32" increments and doubles the number of slot widths available. Many plywoods are being manufactured 1/32" undersized from the nominal size and this allows you to cut dadoes that will fit these materials with less shimming. We have also included a shim set with the dado for fine adjustments."

          The 3/32" chipper is not meant to be added to the 13/16" stacked set to equal 29/32". The chart on the Freud website shows a max width of 27/32"

          http://www.freud-tools.com/freudsdserch.html

          The Delta Unisaws, Powermatic cabinet saws, Jet cabinet saws, and Grizzley saws all specify 13/16" max dado capacity.

          Nuff said.

          Buh bye!
          Lorax
          "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

          Comment


          • #20
            Are there any TS review sites that are liklier to list arbor lengths of these various saws all in one place?

            Or has anyone already made calls to the manufacturers or learned from other presales research?

            And please, yee rabid forum fly gurus, could we please spare the thread the customary "google it" neutralizer, and let some others weigh in first?

            thanks

            Comment


            • #21
              Good effort Lorax.
              If that punishes me somehow, I'm still wondering why it hurts so much, but... .

              Look, if anyone who goes to that link to see that chart - they also will

              NOT see

              anything about the propagandic conclusion you reached.

              Nowhere does it state on Freud's page the exact conclusion you posted.

              Plus, the chart just beneath it - the one near the prices - lists a total of 29/32 - in the same table cell as well -

              and the conclusion I draw from that is Freud probably merely "avoids" any textual statement to that effect, about 29/32" because they know these table saws are selling like crazy to knumbnuts like me having been built with dead inventory.

              daveferg will only be too happy to tell you how the hierarchy and buyouts have evolved.

              Hey. The minute you can post a link to something from a reputably reliable source - which under ordinary circumstances you'd think would be this site - that states your words as fact, (aside: and yes d, actual fact as in don't stretch the fn truth or...)

              then and only then do you get to do the hit and run. Or if you like you could also stick around and toss me steak knife and I'll eat all the crow you want. Get back here and verify those allegations ya pitbull. You never denied you were a hack yet?

              And Dave, as for on the other thread, hardly likely I'll "hold my breath" on this. Will get Freud's take on Monday. Besides, for all you guys have bothered to inquire, I'm probably rabbeting balsa wood.

              I dunno. Just seems you guys want to neutralize every effort to improve the saws marketability. That's what I don't get, Lorax. Almost seems like you have stock or something.

              Comment


              • #22
                After a quick look through some of my catalogs I have, I came up with the following results as to the maximum width that a particular stacked dado set can cut with the the standard mfg. supplied pieces;

                1. Amana = 13/16"
                2. CMT = 29/32"
                3. Freud SD608 = 29/32"
                4. Freud SD508 = 27/32"
                5. Freud SD308 = 13/16"
                6. Freud SD208 = 13/16"
                7. Harbor Freight 44566 = 13/16"
                8. Forrest = 29/32"
                9. Lee Valley = 13/16"
                10. Makita = 13/16"
                11. Oldham 8005824 = 29/32"
                12. Oldham 8004225 = 13/16"
                13. SysticMatic = 13/16"

                Looks to me like the RIDGID saws will work just fine with the majority of them. The RIDGID saws would be able to make the maximum width cut on well over half of them, 8 of the 13 listed to be exact.
                Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Good research---I find it interesting, even though I doubt it will phase our friend. Pretty much confirms the 13/16th figure I seemed to remember, as being the most common.
                  Dave

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    You guys are too funny.

                    Someone tell me these guys don't protesteth too much.

                    Good work, bd. I must admit.

                    But your position, your surrealistically identical postion is too close to trust.

                    I mean could either of you -- I eman that is if you wanted to bother yourselves -- come up with some explanation other than a screw up or a use of dead inventory arbors or planned obsolescence, that would explain how it went down at the Ridgid engineering meeting when it was decided these would be the arbors they would go with,

                    why else might they have decided to go with the shorter arbor.

                    That's all you have to explain to me and I'll get off of this.

                    Why, say if you two were in the lead of designing the 3650, your flagship model saw for your product line, why on this green Earth, what possible advantage would there be, why why why would you not say yeah if we go with the longer arbor potential customers will be happier and more likely to choose our saw?

                    I mean you're there, it isn't as if this scenario was like 5 years a ago. So while your there deciding whether to go 1-1/8 or 1-1/4, why not do it right and blow away 25% more customers away and by inching into the niche void between the $500 and $800 brackets.

                    It isn't a matter of whether you should or shouldn't have missed the opportunity.

                    My beef is why you would have decided in these competitive times, and for the longevity of your good name in the industry, why would you decide that smaller was a better way to go?

                    It's a legitimate question which I think, in light of the recess defect, deserves an explanation from people with more credibility than the bias you'd expect to get from a mutual admiration society.

                    I'm not even looking for a verifiable source here. I'm just politely challenging you to imagine why you might think they leaned in the direction they did.

                    People do this in open discusions. They hypothesize.

                    It's good for the democratic process. I'm sorry. You get someone in your household fighting for democracy in a battle zone and it get's a little boring listening to two people cozily enjoying the freedom of that democracy, while at the same time setting the most exclusionary tones I've ever seen in 15 years of using electronic bulletin boards.

                    Show us links to this so called European arbor length standard. Take the time and make the effort to substantiate the inferences you make in your threads.

                    Show us a list of all table saw arbor lengths.

                    Show us every saw in every price range.

                    And then let everyone decide for themselves whether it's a big deal or not.

                    Otherwise you are recklessly permitting more customer dissatisfaction to occur to future Ridgid customers. Dave - you own a craftsman don't you?? So why exactly has this become some kind of vendetta for you. Is it a personal pride thing?
                    Enquiring minds want to know.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      "Every context falls inside a wider one."

                      And yours apparently is to do nothing other than stir the pot. You haven't contributed much (other than you first half dozen posts) to this forum other than to insult its members, Ridgid, and its employees.

                      What is it you supposedly design anyway?

                      Occupation: Designer

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Ha. Okay so uhm again now?? How does 8 out of 13 become " """well""" over half of them"??

                        And tell ya why it becomes harder for me to be "phased", David, as you so coyly and condescendingly like to make these snide underhanded slurs, is because your chief henchman there, didn't submit factual evidence.

                        Please compare badgerdave's entry in his list to this picture from the Freud website.


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Do you begin to see why I wouldn't recommend that anyone not question any of the statements you have made in posts on these sites?

                          With guys like you this is all more of an ego thing. It isn't a matter of getting to the most objective conclusion. This is why I'm keeping this up. It just wouldn't be fair to let you get away with what you are up to on this site.

                          Don't look now but I think the stretched truth just snapped back and bit cha badger.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Oh get this now. Sure, Jump right on in there, bob. Thought you had more of a mind of your own.

                            Well, I can tell you one thing, if you're sitting on an idea for which you actually do need to make prototypes, you probably don't rely on this kind of bullying, nor trust such short-sighted attitudes. Being nice is a two way street and if anyone takes the time to see the resistance I got on this arbor length issue from the get go on here they're going to realize that I probably had a legitimate concern. The number of threads on this topic that were here already when I arrived to discuss the arbor length issue, speaks for itself.

                            I'm in the minority and I have been right on topic so don't embarass yourself. You know yet all just having a time of it - hell - half of you don't even own this particular product.

                            What is anybody reading this apt to be thinking about who's insulting whom.

                            This site is a joke only because your style of comraderie requires that you bore to death the people who would contribute more if they didn't have to watch out for and dance around all this groupthink.

                            That isn't necessarily a put down unless it hurts when I suggest it.

                            If nothing else my efforts will tend to draw you guys out of the woodwork so those who are trying to use this site will know whom not to trust.

                            Have a visit over at the other thread I've begun.
                            We can talk philosophy over there.

                            New members shouldn't have to be plowing through this foolishness trying to get at some usable conclusion on specific facts regarding the saw.

                            Final conclusion is the daves admit that buying a good dado set for Ridgid TS3650 may leave you dissatisfied and that you shoulda believe them when they claim to have given everyone the heads up even though they may or may not own the 3650 themselves.

                            If you bought the saw, and don't like it then nobody deceived you. You should just try to be as omnifiscent as the daves ( and the bob) next time you plop down cash you could have put down on a better table saw from a more honest company.

                            Case closed as far as I'm concerned (aside: but why do I wanna guess one of these guys will need to have the last word.

                            You guys ought to have gone into masonry. (aside: Shouldn't take 'em more than a few weeks to figure that one out, eh?)

                            Good luck folks. Gave it my best shot.

                            Watch these guys. They smile in your face but they aren't as knowledgable or as helpful as they will lure you into believing. Otherwise they would be more civil and patient in conducting themselves and whatever agenda drives such a pack mentality.

                            All I essentially wanted these guys to do was to allow more people to participate without having to question the reliability of the info here.

                            But no. Someone stood up to them for a while and following the threads you will probably see there's a possibility I was disturbing some low key control they've had with regard to sharing accurate informaion.

                            For some reason this thread and others became more about "putting me in my place", and maintaining the thin illusion that they are the wise old bucks on this site.

                            Let's all take a moment to ask if this is the kind of democratic nonsense we send our service person overseas to protect and die for.

                            You're all disgraceful. Any denegrating I may have resorted to began with my simply refusing to accept the cookie cutter answers you gave. If you didn't have better than cookie cutter answers then I am sorry for having challenged you to verify your information.

                            The Ridgid logo at the top of the page doesn't mean you guys have to be trusted on blind faith. You have an obligation to these people. Please try to honor that a little better in the future.

                            Don't act like your too busy or so self important or that you don't have the time to re-answer a question. Your efforts here with me have certainly blown that allegation all to hell.

                            In which case you've all been royally outsmarted.

                            Early Happy April fools, dudes.

                            Now go get your facts straight.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Maineman,

                              I appreciate your idea of a longer arbor. It seems to make sense, I guess I just haven't needed one as of yet. Just because I haven't needed one doesn't make your thought invalid. I will acknowledge that. Thanks for your insights.

                              Overall, this forum has been a great resource for everyday woodworkers to gather and trade ideas and knowledge. It is a free forum for all to participate. I have benefited greatly from the ideas of all seniority levels on this forum. The following is a summary of my thoughts as a reader:

                              1. "Garbage in - Garbage out" Leave it to the reader to figure out what is best for them. If the reader finds some value in a post, they will take it. If they find no value, they will discard it. Everyone obviously thinks differently, but it is up to THEM to figure out if there is any merit in a post.

                              2. "Emotions -vs- Fact" As the old saying goes, you can lie with stats, and stats can lie. We can all go around looking for facts from different websites about different companies, and sometimes come up with different numbers. I don't think that BadgerDave was trying to pull a fast one on anyone. I am not trying to speak for BD, but he at least went an extra step unemotionally to give us some numbers to work with. Let's at least give some credit for someone going the extra step. BUT, when I start reading posts where emotions start getting involved, it starts to get personal. I am sure that if we all met up to have a beer at the local pub, we would all have great discussions and find out that we are more alike than we are different. Bottom line, "when in dount - underreact"

                              3. "Does it work great for you? Then stick with it" Not everyone is going to agree with a post that we put out to the feeding frenzy. Crap, if everyone agreed, this forum would not exist. But if someone disagrees with a post, or does not see you eye-to-eye, SO BE IT. We are mostly grown adults set in our ways unfortunately, and I think it is pointless to try and make someone think like you, or me, or anyone else. Give them your idea, and if it is a winner in the READERS eyes, then it will take off.

                              In summary - Like I said at the beginning of this post, your idea seems to have some merit, and for that I acknowledge your insights. But I have been seeing alot of bad mouthing of others (which I don't need to list) that have been just stating their views. I have read and learned alot from these woodworkers over the past year. I don't take everything they say as gospel, but am able to sift through their ideas to those that can be applied to me. And overall, they are pretty good at providing great insights for idiots like me.

                              Maineman, you have some great ideas, and I hope to learn more from you in the future. But as a reader, I think that most people stay away from angst and emotion. State your facts and ideas and let them speak for themselves.

                              Sorry for the long post.

                              Swede

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Swede - Thank you for saving me all that typing! Ditto!

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