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  • TS3650 Arbor

    Greetings,

    I just received a replacement Abror from Ridgid for te TS-3650. What exactly is the nature of this problem, and does anyone know if it affects all TS-3650's? Of just those within a certain manufacturing date or serial number?

    Thanks!

    [ 02-15-2005, 05:15 PM: Message edited by: ld ]

  • #2
    There's loads of threads on this subject. It appears to be a hit or miss proposition.
    Dave

    Comment


    • #3
      My understanding is there were 2 issues.
      You would not notice either issue unless you were using a stacked Dado set.

      Issue 1. A groove cut (inattentive tooling run we suspect) below surface of the arbor thread OD, about 3/32" wide, something like .007" deep, beginning about 5/64" out from the face of the arbor flange. In theory your first chipper blade of a dado set up would not be squarely supported. Arguments in threads here ran the gamut. Big prob - trivial prob - given dado layers support each other. Others just thought rpm's made it a dangerous thing. Ordinary blades are fine since they're sitting on a true OD shoulder next to flange.

      Issue 2. The overall length of the arbor exposure from face of arbor flange. Supposedly they were having some made that are supposedly 1/8" longer. Otherwise you could not use all of the chippers for maximum width cut of your dado set. You could still use an adjustable dado just fine, but stacked dado's are way to go.

      As for installation, majority reports say you won't blow warranty if you don't butcher something yourself doing the replacement. Otherwise, no charge if you take the whole saw to a service center. Leave saw. Go fetch saw when it's ready. Not imagining they're paying for fuel.

      You'll need snap ring pliers. ($20 at HD. Or $10 at an auto supply or home town hardware store.)

      Comment


      • #4
        "Issue 2. The overall length of the arbor exposure from face of arbor flange. Supposedly they were having some made that are supposedly 1/8" longer."

        I remember this being discussed, but never heard anything about the possibility that Ridgid was going to offer a longer arbor. I was one who whined that a longer arbor would be nice since they were going to be making new arbors, but there was nothing from Ridgid that I saw in writing on this forum or elsewhere, nor do I remember anyone telling of this coming up in phone conversations with anyone from Ridgid when they called to discuss the arbor problem.

        I'd still like to see it happen, and incorporated into future saws. There should be no free retrofit for current owners (and I fall into that category). But if Ridgid made them available at a reasonable price (I thinking in the ~$20 range) I would buy one to be able to get the full capacity of my dado set.

        Comment


        • #5
          Bob D.

          "There should be no free retrofit for current owners ..."

          Where exactly are you coming from with that assessment?

          I might normally agree. An announced recall would only prohibitively inflate costs of future saws when they did do a good job design-wise on this overall saw value.

          However, the way management of these companies is choosing to handle the other defect (recess), which is to cower from honorably dealing with a poor "supplier" or in-house qc issue, namely, trying to sneak these out of the store and into ownership, then handle complaints on a case by case basis, indicates to me that for some reason they are not justified in going after the supplier. -- all indicates to me that they might be trying to profit from this - 1. by going after the arbor vendor behind the scenes, while still trying to get top dollar from retail customers on the front end, portraying the saw in every other way as being a pro caliber machine.

          Yes I'd pay $20. And if they tasked their engineering people with doing up a comprehensive guide pamflet for end users to do the retrofit at home, and if they (HD) sold the snap ring pliers for under 80% clear profit ($20 vs. $10 anywhere else) there wouldn't be much reason why they'd have to worry as much about liability, cost-overrun in added service center loads or customer dissatisfaction.

          Mistakes happen.

          But you don't get things to happen by taking such a conciliatory stance from the get go.

          Thanks for your comment but I'm really scratching my head wondering how you could stand by and watch these saws still going out of the stores at over $700 bucks in some cases.

          Comment


          • #6
            My comment concerns changing the arbor length on future saws. I did not mean that the replacement arbors for the current saws should not be free as it has been.

            If a company chooses to upgrade a product, previous owners do not automatically get the upgrade.

            If Ford or Chevy came out with a new motor (same CID, etc) that offered imporved MPG or greater power than the one in a truck I just bought should I get a the new upgraded motor for free?

            If Ridgid choose to make the design change and increase the length of the arbor by .250" or whatever it takes to fit a full width dado and still have a full nut of engagement I think that is good and that is what I was referring to, nothing more.

            Comment


            • #7
              Bob D.

              Yeah. Apologies here. I was reading after I wrote that some of your input on other threads and realized I must have misunderstood something. You've made very good observations and hope you'll stay tuned.

              I got the current replacement installed today. Was unbelievably simple compared to how much of a deal everyone was making about it. Never had to do more than to lower and tilt the carriage, bearings stayed in place just fine. Filed down a burr on the key caused by the pulley set screw.

              Put on a new blade and turned out the new blade is cupped by about .0035" but everything else held pretty good. Some minor vibrations but will realign the motor and belt tomorrow.

              And down the road we'll go to see about the length I guess.

              Don't touch that dial now, y'here?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by maineman: Issue 2. The overall length of the arbor exposure from face of arbor flange. Supposedly they were having some made that are supposedly 1/8" longer. Otherwise you could not use all of the chippers for maximum width cut of your dado set. You could still use an adjustable dado just fine, but stacked dado's are way to go.
                Are you making this up as you go along, or what? The 3650 arbor is 1 1/8" long. More than enough for a 13/16" stacked dado and still get a full nut. What's the problem?
                Lorax
                "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

                Comment


                • #9
                  You got me! I pointed it out on another thread---guess they didn't believe me.
                  Dave

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lorax - problem is if you have a 29/32" max width dado, you're going to have a chipper in the box for the rest of it's life. Unless you're working with that new math or something.... 1-1/8+1/8 = 1-1/4" which is what the arbor ought to be measuring. As far as I can remember I did not mention an overall length, so you kinda gotta follow along here, k?

                    And BadgerDave - half the time on here you kinda sound like you're just telling everybody what they're hoping to hear... that the 3650 is the truly professional saw they thought they were getting. No wonder Ridgid doesn't do much monitoring of these issues. All ya really need is a couple o guys in denial.

                    Bottom line is even the new replacement arbor should have been long enough to accomodate the stabilizer washer. And yes gentlemen even at the 13/16" limitation.

                    So let's try to help you out now. Put 29/32" of Freud on this arbor and you only get 3 and half turns of that washer which means you only have the washer 75% of the way on. If I want a dado that's 57/64" I'm still screwed. And so on down to good old 13/16" (aka 52/64") which - gee - maybe that 13/16" limitation was prominently displayed on the outside of the box or at the beginning of the assembly instruction, huh?

                    I know. I'll just have you guys come over and reasure my employees that it's safe to run that way.

                    Men. please. Don't run and hide on this willya? It doesn't become either of you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Correction:

                      which means you only have the washer 75% of the way on.

                      should be:

                      which means you only have the NUT 75% of the way on.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by maineman:
                        "Lorax - problem is if you have a 29/32" max width dado, you're going to have a chipper in the box for the rest of it's life".

                        Problem is, you're the one that bought an accessory that won't fit your saw. Doesn't sound very professional to me.

                        "Unless you're working with that new math or something.... 1-1/8+1/8 = 1-1/4" which is what the arbor ought to be measuring. As far as I can remember I did not mention an overall length, so you kinda gotta follow along here, k"?

                        The arbor has always been 1 1/8" long. Max dado has always been 13/16". Try to keep up, k?

                        "And BadgerDave - half the time on here you kinda sound like you're just telling everybody what they're hoping to hear... that the 3650 is the truly professional saw they thought they were getting. No wonder Ridgid doesn't do much monitoring of these issues. All ya really need is a couple o guys in denial".

                        B]Or one malcontent beating a dead horse into the ground.


                        "Bottom line is even the new replacement arbor should have been long enough to accomodate the stabilizer washer. And yes gentlemen even at the 13/16" limitation".

                        What part of "The washer is not required when using a stacked dado" don't you understand ?

                        "So let's try to help you out now. Put 29/32" of Freud on this arbor and you only get 3 and half turns of that washer which means you only have the washer 75% of the way on. If I want a dado that's 57/64" I'm still screwed. And so on down to good old 13/16" (aka 52/64") which - gee - maybe that 13/16" limitation was prominently displayed on the outside of the box or at the beginning of the assembly instruction, huh"?

                        If you had read the instructions before buying your fancy dado set, you wouldn't have a problem now, at least not the same problem. I'm sure you could find something else to cry about.

                        "I know. I'll just have you guys come over and reasure my employees that it's safe to run that way".

                        B]I can reassure your employees that their boss is a, oh never mind![/B]

                        "Men. please. Don't run and hide on this willya? It doesn't become either of you".

                        If anyone should run and hide it's you! I can't believe anyone would make such a big stink over such a trivial thing. What do you need that extra 3/32" for anyway?[/b]
                        [ 02-18-2005, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Lorax ]
                        Lorax
                        "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This is what you get for trying to be helpful to some people.

                          Live with it then. Doesn't mean we have to be tail kissers too.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Oh.

                            Try and go cut a few hobby dados if it bothers you that much?

                            As I've said previously that's just the point. I am @#!@$%$% embarassed. See Lorax counting to see how many characters that is.

                            Sheesh.

                            Lorax. What is your problem man.
                            Read my other posts on the issue. Anyone doing more than a few hobby dados, say a couple of thousand productio rabbets of 2" wide to be exact, would also maybe kinda sorta appreciate the 3/32" after a while.

                            And I did come to this site before I purchased the saw, and at the time nobody had the stones or any dadoing experience enough to have complained about the first damned problem let alone the next one on the plate.

                            This thread is clearly about the 3650 arbor and I fail to see what you think we're all supposed to be doing here except maybe having some kind of what, love fest?

                            Here's where I might allude to someone's behind closed doors orientation but I'm not sure this guy wouldn't lose it. Or can he be reasonable and try to contribute something of value.

                            Okay fine Lorax. You love and care for the saw and the group more than me. Alright? You can be king. I honestly don't care about that crap. You'll also learn I will tire of trying to kiss up to you. I'm sorry but you will learn that I don't have much time for honoring some nonsense protocol to a bunch of guys who just sit around making snide comments and acting like they own the place.

                            If you guys had been doing justice to this site all along I would have found the info and you're right, for all the time I've lost just to be able to do a close to squarish 1/4" dado, I could have purchased a mid-range Grizzly.

                            How much truth can you handle, L.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              And one more thing Lorax.

                              You're so good at the HTML stuff, where's the photo of the saw carton box that clearly states not recommended for "fancy dado sets"?

                              C'mon man, lighten up.

                              Comment

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