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  • Generic ridgid battery???



    Sponsored
    Jialitt 18V 6.0Ah Lithium Ion Replacement Battery for RIDGID 18V Drill R840087 R840083 R840086 AC840085

    Anyone see these batteries at amazon and/or E-bay?
    they look like generic or Ridgid battery knock-offs.
    Price is $42.99 for the 6AH model..no information if it has the
    crazy blue tooth crap.

    they also show a 4.5AH, 4AH, and 5AH models.
    There are also various vendor? names..Bisware, Jialitt, Epowon
    The names make me suspect these are definitely china knock offs and
    may be junk or are coming out of the back door of TTI's factory.

    Any thoughts?????

    Cactus Man

  • #2
    I haven't had any of those apart, but I doubt they are much different internally than the Powerextra packs - https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...ment-batteries

    That one there I tore apart has some no name cells in it, as one would expect, but they didn't test far off at all from some actual Samsung cells that are in an official Ridgid pack I have here.

    Comment


    • #3
      I got a feeling you get what you pay for. Are the cells as good ? How about case construction? Will plastics hold up well?

      Comment


      • #4
        genuine Ridgid 6ah battery used on ebay is 52$, not much more than the knockoffs new price

        https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-RID...cAAOSwB7FeFQ8p
        HEY! What does this button do?

        Comment


        • #5
          With all the promotions they run for batteries why bother with something that may kill your tool (no, not THAT one ).

          Buy a pair of REAL RIDGID batteries, one of the kits and register everything so you get LSA coverage. Then give the tool or charger to a friend or family member. You get good batteries and they get maybe something they need.

          For the difference in cost it's worth taking the chance to me. Plus, no chance of LSA coverage for the knock off batteries.
          "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

          https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1p...qcZKHyrqKhikFA

          ----

          Comment


          • #6
            My concern would be that an overloaded Ridgid tool would be destroyed because the knockoff didn't have a thermal overload shut off like the Ridgid batteries have according to there battery operator's manual..... I have bought the kits to get LSA coverage on the batteries and have 6 chargers.... really can't give them away, my whole family is on Ryobi platform.

            I guess I will be building a Ridgid super duper rapid charging station to house them all....

            Comment


            • Bob D.
              Bob D. commented
              Editing a comment
              Sell them on CL or eBay for cheap and recover some of the battery cost.

            • drainman scott
              drainman scott commented
              Editing a comment
              I have 2 110 watt ones that I'll keep and 4 55 watt ones and one on the way w/purchase of 2 bluetooth batteries w/lifetime so I'll probably give a few ( let borrow for a long time ) the 55 watts to some plumber friends .. all have LSA under my name.

          • #7
            That Powerextra knockoff that I tore down has every bit as much 'protection' that the official packs have in them. The amount of complexity that has to go into the things to 'talk' to the Ridigid chargers is ridiculous, so odds are those Jialitt packs are setup pretty similar inside. I'm not recommending any of them, as having the LSA on the official packs will sooner or later come in handy, but the knockoffs aren't any better or worse than the official packs when you get down to how they work.

            Comment


            • Bob D.
              Bob D. commented
              Editing a comment
              Sure, they probably reverse engineered them so they are exactly the same just made with cheaper parts and cheaper labor and less quality control, then sold at a third the price while still making 200% profit.

              Buying these knock-off batteries will certainly encourage TTI to offer a wider variety of tools and improve their batteries.

          • #8
            I have a couple 4ah "knockoffs" that I use all the time around the house on my Ridgid radio, USB Power Source, and Light Canon. They work and recharge fine. Haven't compared the run time with my Ridgid batteries, but it seems the same.

            Comment


            • Moar
              Moar commented
              Editing a comment
              Those things load the battery very lightly and heavy load performance is completely irrelevant. They'll work fine even with batteries that have become unusable under heavy load.

          • #9
            Originally posted by RDC View Post
            I haven't had any of those apart, but I doubt they are much different internally than the Powerextra packs - https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...ment-batteries

            That one there I tore apart has some no name cells in it, as one would expect, but they didn't test far off at all from some actual Samsung cells that are in an official Ridgid pack I have here.
            How do you know "it is the same internally"? From one of your posts, the physical schematic for the 2Ah and 4Ah packs are the same but that doesn't mean the protective parameters in the EEPROM are set the same. Ridgid battery packs have a back-to-back MOSFET switches to provide bidirectional control. These are used as solid state switches for firmware controlled e-fuse. For Octane tools, these switches are also used for disabling the battery pack for security purposes through the app. When you're using brushless tools, sometimes the motor controller will trip (tool side limit) or battery will trip. When you have to remove and reinsert the battery, you know it's a battery trip.

            When MOSFETs fail, they usually fail closed, so as a last line defense, the pack has a fusible link: Clockwise starting from lower left: 1.5Ah, 2Ah and 4Ah packs. Even though Ridgid claims all 18v tools work with all 18v batteries, different combination affects more than the run time. This is proven by the fact fusible links being sized differently depending on the battery capacity rather than capping them all to be the same as the 1.5Ah pack. If you run the 4Ah pack (5S2P) I2t profile on the 2Ah pack, there's a good chance you'll exceed the limit for sustained load on a single string while the opposite means you're going to have premature efuse trips.

            The fusible link isn't intended to protect against an overload. It is meant to isolate the battery from a short circuit and permanently disable the pack just in case the MOSFET fails closed in the event of a fault in the tool. OEM Ridgid packs are produced in a great volume that TTI and cell manufacturers can afford to properly match the fusible link and tune the I2t curve to each cell type and spread the cost over the volume. A very likely concern for a generic replacement is the chance they could be using the same fusible link (if even present)and I2t profile for the 2P (meaning "two in parallel" hence 2P. Examples are 4Ah and 6Ah Octane) or 3P (such as the 5S3P Octane 9Ah pack)pack for all the packs greatly increasing the chance of sustained overload on battery and a corresponding battery incident.

            Apply a crowbar short across the terminals of a genuine Ridgid pack with a piece of wire. The efuse will turn off the output on fault/instant trip curve with no permanent damage. As for lesser overload, input from temperature sensor, magnitude, duration are factored into when the battery will trip. A mismatch between the efuse's i2t curve and the acceptable intermittent load envelope for the cells used means excessive nuisance trip or elevated risk of battery venting.

            If the load is a light, blue tooth speaker, and other things that don't even come close to 1/2C rate, the I2t protection isn't even relevant and it doesn't really matter, but I2t protection lets you handle an intermittent load that can pull 600-800 watts in short bursts out of a reasonably sized pack.

            When you plug a smart phone into a proper charger and they can complete a hand shake and the phone acknowledges it's connected to a 2-3A port, it initiates a rapid charge, but when it's plugged into a computer (0.5A limit) the phone charges slowly to stay under the limit of the power source. I'm going to talk out of my rear but Octane battery/tool maybe making similar communications. 10 or 15 cell batteries are going to have a greater current carrying capability, because you have 2 or 3 strings of cells in parallel instead of just one, so the extra power might be from the ability for battery and tool to introduce each other and let the tool take advantage of bigger packs.
            Attached Files
            Last edited by Moar; 01-24-2020, 02:17 PM.

            Comment


            • drainman scott
              drainman scott commented
              Editing a comment
              Your explanation of Ridgid's battery operation is the best I ever read.

          • #10
            Where did I say they were the same? "I doubt they are much different internally", is far from saying they are the same, and was comparing the Powerextra that I have had apart to the Jialitt pack that I have no real desire to dig into.

            The knockoff Powerextra pack also has the same dual FET setup. https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/po...641#post742641
            Preliminary schematic of it - http://www.acidmods.com/RDC/Ridgid/P...%20R840083.pdf

            How about you crowbar an actual Ridgid pack or two there and let everyone know what really happens?

            Comment


            • Moar
              Moar commented
              Editing a comment
              The I^2t curve is a HUGE deal and having a correct profile is not a minor difference. The MOSFETs are sized to be capable of handling the raw available fault current of the cells and they're nothing more than switches. The switches are controlled by the firmware and the profile is entirely in the EEPROM settings; that way, they can create whatever fuses they want all in the software. MOSFET capacity is like the capacity of the fuse holder. Having the wrong fuse profile in the EEPROM is the same as sticking in a 30A fuse in place of a 10A.

              Shorting across the two terminals with a foot long piece of 18AWG causes a draw well within the instantaneous trip region so the firmware turns off the MOSFETs immediately and designed to stay latched off until there's an ABSOLUTE open circuit on the battery terminals. It doesn't do anything remarkable. You mean you've never done it? This is why you have to remove and reinsert the battery on a Ridgid tool after a battery trip (Your battery has tripped when you push the fuel gauge button and none of the lights come on).

              A more modest overload like a 0.5 ohm load would cause a battery trip after some seconds, depending on the cell temperature. The trip time for a 2Ah/1P wouldn't be the same as a 4Ah/2P.

              The handshake between the charger is so the battery only accepts charge from a correct charger. Lithium pack wouldn't let itself be charged from an old NiCd only charger.

            • RDC
              RDC commented
              Editing a comment
              ​The pack does not monitor current draw. Show me the coil, shunt Resistor or even a Precision Resistor in there where they are doing that, none of them are there. The HA1930 monitors the cell voltages and if they drop under X.X voltage for Y amount of time it will trip. A dead short on a 1.5Ah pack takes ~900ms before it will trip with the cell voltages dropping to around 0.5v for the duration.

              Short placed on terminals, ~900ms it trips and the SENSE line, which only monitors if there is anything across the terminals, goes Hi and the pack stays 'protected' until there is an open detected there, aka tool unplugged.



              If the short or overload placed on the pack is intermittent and the X.Xv and Yt are not met, kiss the fusible link goodbye.

              Making each pack with current monitoring would be pointless beyond belief as the battery has no idea what tool it's been plugged into, thus would have no idea if the current draw was acceptable. It can tell when something is 'wrong' but only by monitoring the voltage, not current. One could argue that's the other side of the same coin, Ohms Law and all, but there's no proper current sensing going on in these packs.

              The 'handshake' is far more than that, as it takes place over the entire charging time of the pack. If you've looked into this as well I'd be interested in hearing about it as there are plenty of boards out there with a frakked HA1930 and everything else still in working order. T2 is the command from the charger, T1 is the data stream form the pack.





              That Powerextra pack doesn't do that and it is skirting around that somehow. I need to connect the LA back up to the charger to look more into that one.​
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