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Let the Lithium-Ion wars begin

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  • #16
    The big deal is new battery technology developed by MIT and now licensed to DeWalt and Bosch. This new technology is pretty cool.

    Max watts available 3000, max watts available with corded tools 1500. Double the power when you need it like pushing your circular saw or drilling large holes.

    Double the capacity of the 18V batteries. This means, everything else being equal, double the run time.

    5 minutes recharge from dead to 90%, 15 minutes from dead to 100%.

    Up to 10 times recharge cycle life of current generation LI batteries.

    This might just get me to retire the red and silver.


    • #17
      My first post! Hi fellas, I'm a 30 yr pipefitter,
      very cool about these lithium ion tools getting to market. I have 24v hilti drill that I love but dang it's heavy. One of my hobbies is flashlight fanatic.
      I play with lithium ion cells, both protected and unprotected, very carefully I might add. The technology that would need to make a ? 36v 3000w ?
      lithium ion pack safe and reliable is going to VERY
      expensive I think. I would guess $400 or so for a battery pack....And of course its dedicated charger.
      We know what laptop batteries cost. At what cost power and light weight?? What you think fellas?


      • #18
        I'm willing to bet the new 36 Volt batteries for DeWalt will probably cost around the same as the 28 Volt Lithium Ion batteries for Milwaukee. Here's why: Because the DeWalt batteries won't have the little indicator on the battery, but instead on the charger. This might save them money on battery production that they might put into developing the other 8 volts into a lighter more competitive battery, etc.


        • #19
          I have no idea what the 36v batteries will cost, but I can guess that the charge indicator on a battery probably doesn't cost the manufacturer more than a buck or two, so I doubt its elimination would have a big impact on retail pricing.

          At any rate this does sound like breakthrough technology with huge implications, even beyond cordless tools (as if anything else even matters).

          Article (dated 11/05/05) on new batteries.
          And another...
          And finally a link to the new company's website.

          [ 11-29-2005, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: ooman2 ]


          • #20
            The price on the batteries should not change. A new manufacturing technology should slightly decrease the materials cost while boosting performance. Don't expect to see any decrease in price, the cost difference is minimal and productions processes will change a little. The benefit, prices should not go up.

            That being said, I'll bet that the first to market will command a premium. That's just market forces at work.


            • #21
              It seems odd to me how much attention is paid to the FIRST generation Li ion tools and what product is best. I see the use of Li ion as a bad choice (heavy and lower discharge rates), and the real way of the furture Li tools is Li poly as the Radio control guys have found out. The recent development of Li poly cells has far out done the Li ion improvements. Li ploy is not perfect, but it is better in high dischare rate applications.


              • #22

                I own and use (2) two 28volt Lithiom Ion hammerdrills and they are not any heavier than my 18v drills yet they are far stronger and last much longer. I don't know which ion technology they use in toy cars but the technology used in the tools is far lighter than the previous batteries.

                While weight is certainly an issue its not a drawback for LIon versus NICAD. Regarding the 36volt vs 28 volt we all just have to wait and see when they are used side by side for hours at a time.
                Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.


                • #23
                  i never had much use for cordless tools other them maybe a drill buy i do remember when 7.2 volt was the best around then came makitas 9.6 witch stayed around for for a few years till the 12 volts and so on my point is this as technolgy gets better tools get better but at what price to us? a corded drill $60-100 cordless $100-350 corded sazall $75-180 cordless $100-300.the nice thing about cordless is there conveice i will admit to that.but one the jobs that i have ran in the past we just had a genorater in the middle of the house running all the tools and just used the cordless tools for the punch out crews now i do realize that not everyone builds homes and everyone does use there tools for differnt things in what every line of work you do.but if the price of these new ion tools dont come down soon the only poeple that will have them are us jorneymen none of the aprentices can aford them and still make there rent and carpayments and still eat i did pay all my guys better then the averge employer but the new makita impact is $329 at my home depot that is step even for me and to see the chuck is made of plastic really makes me wonder how good of a tool it really is and the light did little for me but i will give it this it sure was very very light but others wize i was very unimpressed with it just my two cents
                  9/11/01, never forget.


                  • #24
                    I think weight of the tool is negligeable when the tools:

                    1) Have twice or almost twice the power due to the 36 or 28 V versus the typical 18 Volt flagship battery packs.

                    2) The batteries last twice as long or more, both per charge, and over the course of their life.

                    3) The batteries charge faster.

                    4) The Batteries have an indicator of some sort (whether it be the button the Milwaukee or the charger indicator on the DeWalt)

                    5) Because of all of the above, they actually develop the tool lines with lots of tools to compliment the attributes of the battery systems. This is contradictory to 24 Volt tools where they brought them out, and they only developed a handful of tools, the batteries were pricey but didn't provide much advantage over 18 Volt tools.

                    I repeat - weight is NOT the issue here. Factor in a lot of the benefits listed above versus just the simple potential slightly increased weight factor. The 28 Volt Milwaukee batteries reportedly weigh less or the same as 18 volts. I would imagine the 36 Volt DeWalt's and Bosch's probably weigh just a little more, but the above advantages make me forget about the slight difference in weight really quick. I'd imagine it will be such a slight difference (just speculating here) that it won't be noticeable.


                    • #25

                      You sorta misread my post. What I was saying was that Li based systems are fine and in the end probably better than Nicd, but to use somewhat dated Li ion cells rather than the Li Poly ones makes me wonder, as the Li Poly in the R/C world has left Li ion far behind. I know the manufactures say that they did wonders with the Li ion designs to make them work in power tools, but Li ion cells are heavier than Li poly and less able to deliver high currents. Note that Nicd is heavier than any Li cell, but between Li ion and Li poly, Li poly is ever lighter.

                      I'm do not really care about the weight of the tool. What I care about is these 1st gen systems will soon be replaced by gen 2 (Li poly) and we will have provided the research and development budget for this by buying tools that are already behind the times.

                      My R/C reference was not to 'toy cars.' It was high performace electric airplanes and helicopters. And while you brought up 'toys', why are these manufacturers still using brushed motors? R/C has gone over to brushless designs that are, in many cases, 20% more efficient and never need maintenence? If you REALLY want a top performing tool, don't throw away 20% of the batteries energy in a lossy motor.