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  • BlackAndDecker MM525 switch terminal connections

    I don't know if I should have posted this question to the electricians forum or if it's even in-topic for this forum. Please let me know.

    I am an active member and contributor to computer-related forums but I'm witless about power tools. This seems to be a pretty basic question but for which I couldn't find an answer googling.

    I have a Black And Decker electric lawn mower model MM525. It has a push button switch model 681064-01. A pretty standard switch for what I could gather in my googling.

    The switch failed and I had to get a new one. I disconnected mine, wrote down what cable went in which terminal and... the winter came and went. Finally I got the new switch but I've lost the paper where I wrote down the connections. I couldn't find any info on what cables go where and I'm totally lost.

    The cables are two black one white and one red

    I could post a picture of the switch but I don't want to abuse the forum so here is my schematic:
    Code:
      (P)
      _
        \
      /
        /
    the (P) represents the push button while the lines represent the terminals.

    Any help will be appreciated.
    Last edited by rarsa; 05-11-2006, 09:38 AM.

  • #2
    All the following to be tested with the machine unplugged....
    post the pic it may help. do you have a volt/ohm meter? what you need to do is use the ohm meter to figure out what wires come from the plug (my bet is the white with the black) and what comes from the motor (my bet the white with the red).
    now you need to use the ohm meter function and check the switch. It is likely a double pole single throw switch which basically means that the switch switches both the neutral and the hot wires. with the switch off none of the contacts should be shorted together. when the switch is on you will likely find that the terminals on each side of the switch are shorted from input to output but are not shorted across or side by side at the top and bottom(easier to show with a pic of the switch)
    If all the above assumptions are true then the black and red will go on one side of the switch that short when you turn it on and the white wires go on the other side.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you, I will try with the multimeter. If I have no luck tomorrow I will post the pictures.

      Sorry if I misslead you saying that there were only four cables, I was talking about the cables that go to the switch.

      There are actually 5 cables. Only 4 of them go to the switch as follows:

      - There are 4 cables coming from the motor: a red, white, black and orange
      - The orange cable goes directly to the plug
      - The red, white, and black go to the switch
      - There is another black cable going from the plug to the switch

      Thank you,

      Comment


      • #4
        You didn't mention which model (Type) mower. I found the mower on toolpartsdirect.com, they list Types 1 thru 4. They may have different switches but they should all work the same.

        Wayne, here's the link which will show you the switch (but no schematic or wring diagram).

        http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-b...r/mm525_type_1

        http://www.toolpartsdirect.com/cgi-b.../MM525_TYPE_1/
        Last edited by Bob D.; 05-03-2006, 06:33 PM.
        ---------------
        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
        ---------------
        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
        ---------
        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
        ---------
        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks Bob,
          The pic does show the whites tied with a wire nut and the position of the black on the switch ( no colors but that is the only UL approved possibility. As for the 3 wires from the motor I not sure where they would go on the switch. Are there any labels on the switch terminals? Would the place you bought the switch happen to be a repair shop, they would likely have the wiring diagram and be able to tell you what goes where

          Comment


          • #6
            Thank you for the diagram. I had already seen it when I originally searched on the Internet. I investigated and all the types use the same switch.

            Originally posted by wbrooks
            The pic does show the whites tied with a wire nut and the position of the black on the switch ( no colors but that is the only UL approved possibility.
            Actually the ones that show tied with the wire nut is actually the orange (no wire nut) The other from the plug is black.


            Originally posted by wbrooks
            Are there any labels on the switch terminals?
            None.
            Originally posted by wbrooks
            Would the place you bought the switch happen to be a repair shop, they would likely have the wiring diagram and be able to tell you what goes where
            They only open during the week and they close before I leave the office (4:00 PM), I haven't had a chance to go by. I may go on lunch time next week if I have no luck

            I've opened the old switch and did some thinking, That lead to some progress, I think that I've reduced the number of combinations.

            The four terminals are what I would call an 'or' switch (I don't know the proper term).
            So looking from the inside of the switch:
            - The switch has two sliders, paralell to each other,
            - When the button is not pushed one of the sliders closes the terminals 2 and 4 while 3 and 5 are open.
            - When the button is pushed, 3 and 5 are closed and 2 and 4 are open.

            Code:
            With the button     With the button
            not pushed          pushed
              |   |2                  2
              |3  |4             |3  |4
               5                 |5  |
            With that in mind and knowing that from the plug the orange goes to the mower. I am thinking that the black from the plug should go to 5 so the circuit is completely open when the button is not pushed.

            That means that on 3 we can only have Red, white or the black that come from the mower. (three combinations)

            Whith that reduced number of combinations I tested with the ohm meter. Here are the results for the different combinations with the button pushed

            Black on 3, Red on 2, White on 4: As expected the circuit does not close. Discarded
            Red on 3, Black on 2, White on 4: The circuit closes. plausible
            White on 3, Black on 2, Red on 4: The circuit closes. plausible

            So I went with Red on 3 and ventured to plug the mower. It works for about 30 seconds and then the breaker pops (again, I don't know the proper term)

            Then I went to White on 3, also worked for 30 seconds and then the breaker popped.

            Now I'm totally lost. Why wouldn't the only two plausible combinations work?

            Thank you for your help.

            Comment


            • #7
              You may want to wait for the proper diagram before you smoke it.
              If you are keen to keep trying you can pull it further apart.
              Part 63 is a rectifier and power must go there for the motor to work.
              Part 80 is a set of shunt brushs that are used to stop the motor quickly when you let go of the handle, so I would think they would go to the contacts that are closed when the switch is off.
              How did you determine that the orange wire goes to the white?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wbrooks
                How did you determine that the orange wire goes to the white?
                Oh, What I meant to say is that there is no white tied with a wire nut. That cable that goes from the plug to the mower is orange, not white, although there is a white cable going from the mower to the switch.

                Originally posted by wbrooks
                If you are keen to keep trying you can pull it further apart.
                Part 63 is a rectifier and power must go there for the motor to work.
                Part 80 is a set of shunt brushs that are used to stop the motor quickly when you let go of the handle, so I would think they would go to the contacts that are closed when the switch is off.
                I will open the mower and check this.


                Finally I found a good picture of the switch

                Thanks a lot.
                Last edited by rarsa; 05-09-2006, 07:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  More info.

                  I opened the mower and draw this diagram of what I see:


                  (when I mention a part I'm referring to a part in the lawnmower diagram. It is actually a Type4 mower).
                  • All cables (Orange, Black, White and Red) go into part 63.
                  • From there White connects to a different red cable that goes to part 80 (shunted brush) located inside part 49
                  • Red connects to a black cable that goes to the other part 80 going inside the other part 49
                  • The white and orange Go nowhere (unless there are connections inside part 63)

                  So there we have it, more clues. If I make sense of this I will post my findings.

                  Thanks again.
                  Last edited by rarsa; 05-09-2006, 07:30 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, here are my thoughts. No guarantees
                    The solution that you discarded is the correct one.
                    Using the numbering system from your post a few above...
                    Black from the plug definitely goes on number 5
                    Black from the harness goes to 3
                    This configuration will supply power to the rectifier (63) inputs as the orange wire is direct from the neutral from the plug. We know that black and orange are the inputs to the rectifier because the motor must be across the outputs. Red and White go to 2 and 4, does not matter which goes on either because they are shorted when the switch is open.
                    What this does is shorts the armature to stop the motor quickly when you let go of the switch.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe it was not the switch that failed.
                      SSG, U.S. Army
                      Retired
                      K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by wbrooks
                        The solution that you discarded is the correct one.
                        Indeed !

                        Thank's a lot for your patience. I was able to mow my lawn just in time.

                        This had been quite a dry spring up until yesterday night. It's forcasted to rain for the next 4 days

                        If you ever need Computers/Linux help I'll be glad to help.

                        I'm usually around The Puppy linux forum. (The only relation to dogs is the name)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          help

                          I've been trying to fix the same switch in my mower, but I don't understand the final results.
                          By looking directly at the switch, which wires go to which posts?
                          Please email me direct
                          blkpanther_75 at hotmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You need to use an ohm meter to determine the pin configuration of your switch then reference that to the diagram in post #6 in this string

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I've received a couple of questions for this same problem and apparently the thread is not as clear as I thought. So, for people in the same situation:

                              Here is how I connected it.

                              If you have the switch with the push button pointing up and the terminals facing you then:

                              Red goes to upper left
                              White goes to lower left
                              Black cables connect to terminals on the right

                              My mower has been working great with that combination.

                              Comment

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