Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

ts3650 shudders and shakes

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • ts3650 shudders and shakes

    hi-

    i'm hoping to get some help here- i emailed ridgid tech support last week but haven't heard from them.

    my month old 3650 has developed a large shudder when i turn the power off and the motor is running down- it's so bad that the whole saw shakes. has anyone else experienced this?

    other than this little problem i'd have to say i'm as happy as a pig in mud with my new saw. i really like the fence- i don't bother measuring anymore, i just set the indicator and make the cut.

    tia for any help,
    rocky

  • #2
    I had a similar problem when first setting up the saw. Make sure it is level - place a level on the table top and check it in both poitions (length and width). Mine shuddered but stopped when it was leveled properly.

    My garage floor is very unlevel so I put a piece of 1x4 underneath to help level the saw.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rocky, Can't give you a positive "It's this" but several things you might want to check:

      First: I bought mine last Jan and found that the instructions for installing the belt on the motor (page 39 in the manual included with mine) did not work on my saw. The problem was that the slot that lets the motor pivot up and down with blade height was cut too far to the end, and adjusting it by the manual meant that the motor was jammed against the mount housing instead of actually resting on and providing tension on the belt. To check this, squeeze the belt with the blade at max heighth. If the motor doesn't freely move and allow you to squeeze the belt together, it is adjusted wrong and needs to be backed off until the motor pivots freely. If this is the problem, the shudder won't occur if you drop the height of the blade some, but only when it is full height.

      Second, check the pully alignment, and make sure the pulley set screws are tight. While doing this, check the belt for any damage and make sure it is seated in the grooves.

      Third, check the trunnion bolts to make sure they are tight (mine was shipped with them only finger tight. I caught it while fine tuning the blade alignment).

      Fourth, if the above doesn't fix it, check ALL bolts to make sure they are tight.

      If the above doesn't fix it, you may have an electrical problem with the motor, which I will leave to the more knowledgeable about that scenario (and their are several on this forum that REALLY KNOW electric motors). You may want to add info if you rewired it for 220, because that may be the problem.

      And, do not ignore the simple things like a blade being loose, bent or out of balance (lost cutter, etc). If you have another blade, install it and see if the problem re-occurs. Its easy to miss one of those little bits of carbide missing from a 40 or 60 tooth blade (DAMHIKT).

      Hope this helps. Maybe it will give you some things to check while waiting for the tech reps. As a minimum, it will eliminate some of the possibilities.

      Good luck
      Go
      Practicing at practical wood working

      Comment


      • #4
        thanks for the suggestions guys

        i re-leveled the saw, tightened the trunion bolts, re-adjusted the motor mounts, checked the belt and pulleys, tried a new saw blade...and no luck.

        however i did notice a new symptom- there is a click just before it shudders that sounds like a selenoid is releasing?

        thanks for your help- i'll contact ridgid tech support again and maybe get an answer this time.

        thanks again,
        rocky

        Comment


        • #5
          thanks again for the suggestions. i tried everything, checked belt for wear, etc and it's still doing it. i called ridgid tech support and the guy said "i never heard of that one before" and that i should take it back to home depot and exchange it. great- another 4 hours putting a saw together and then the herculift... oh well, i guess it's better than not having my saw work right.

          thanks for your help,
          rocky

          Comment


          • #6
            Very good point, and if it is the motor just take that back and exchange the motor, even if you have to buy another saw, swap the motor in the parking lot, then return it.

            Comment


            • #7
              hey guys-

              yes- i took the blade off and had the same problem although it wasn't as bad. i had the same click and then shudder. i also played with the pulleys adjusting them back and forth and tightened the set screws. i looked at both pulleys and couldn't see any thing wrong with them.

              i think there's something wrong with the motor- but if i just buy another one, change the motor in the parking lot and return it, it may end up being something else and i'm still stuck. also not fair to the next guy when they put it back on the shelf and sell it to someone else.

              i guess i'm resigned to having to return it.


              thanks again,
              rocky

              btw- there were no "accidents" with the saw. i'm the only one who's ever touched it and i'm very careful when i use it.

              Comment


              • #8
                It is the centrifugal switch on the shaft that is clicking. The switch is used to switch from the start to run windings of the motor. If you listen close you will here it click when you turn it on. It starts in the start winding position after a certain RPM it switched to the run windings. when you shut it off you are hearing it switch back to the start winding position. It is normal to here this.
                SSG, U.S. Army
                Retired
                K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here is more on how it works.
                  Single-phase AC induction motors
                  Three-phase motors inherently produce a rotating magnetic field. However, when only single-phase power is available, the rotating magnetic field must be produced using other means. Several methods are commonly used.

                  A common single-phase motor is the shaded-pole motor, which is used in devices requiring low torque, such as electric fans or other small household appliances. In this motor, small single-turn copper "shading coils" create the moving magnetic field. Part of each pole is encircled by a copper coil or strap; the induced current in the strap opposes the change of flux through the coil (Lenz's Law), so that the maximum field intensity moves across the pole face on each cycle, thus producing the required rotating magnetic field.

                  Another common single-phase AC motor is the split-phase induction motor, commonly used in major appliances such as washing machines and clothes dryers. Compared to the shaded pole motor, these motors can generally provide much greater starting torque by using a special startup winding in conjunction with a centrifugal switch.

                  In the split-phase motor, the startup winding is designed with a higher resistance than the running winding. This creates an LR circuit which slightly shifts the phase of the current in the startup winding. When the motor is starting, the startup winding is connected to the power source via a set of spring-loaded contacts pressed upon by the not-yet-rotating centrifugal switch. The starting winding is wound with fewer turns of smaller wire than the main winding, so it has a lower inductance (L) and higher resistance (R). The lower L/R ratio creates a small phase shift, not more than about 30 degrees, between the flux due to the main winding and the flux of the starting winding. The starting direction of rotation may be reversed simply by exchanging the connections of the startup winding relative to the running winding.

                  The phase of the magnetic field in this startup winding is shifted from the phase of the mains power, allowing the creation of a moving magnetic field which starts the motor. Once the motor reaches near design operating speed, the centrifugal switch activates, opening the contacts and disconnecting the startup winding from the power source. The motor then operates solely on the running winding. The starting winding must be disconnected since it would increase the losses in the motor.

                  In a capacitor start motor, a starting capacitor is inserted in series with the startup winding, creating an LC circuit which is capable of a much greater phase shift (and so, a much greater starting torque). The capacitor naturally adds expense to such motors.

                  Another variation is the Permanent Split-Capacitor (PSC) motor (also known as a capacitor start and run motor). This motor operates similarly to the capacitor-start motor described above, but there is no centrifugal starting switch and the second winding is permanently connected to the power source. PSC motors are frequently used in air handlers, fans, and blowers and other cases where a variable speed is desired. By changing taps on the running winding but keeping the load constant, the motor can be made to run at different speeds. Also provided all 6 winding connections are available separately, a 3 phase motor can be converted to a capactor start and run motor by commoning two of the windings and connecting the third via a capacitor to act as a start winding.

                  Repulsion motors are wound-rotor single-phase AC motors that are similar to universal motors. In a repulsion motor, the armature brushes are shorted together rather than connected in series with the field. Several types of repulsion motors have been manufactured, but the repulsion-start induction-run (RS-IR) motor has been used most frequently. The RS-IR motor has a centrifugal switch that shorts all segments of the commutator so that the motor operates as an induction motor once it has been accelerated to full speed. RS-IR motors have been used to provide high starting torque per ampere under conditions of cold operating temperatures and poor source voltage regulation. Few repulsion motors of any type are sold as of 2006.
                  SSG, U.S. Army
                  Retired
                  K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thanks for the tutorial, tod. 2 questions: 1) should the click be louder at start than stop? and b) if this is normal does it rule out the motor as being the problem?

                    thanks,
                    rocky

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Look at it thisi way, if the saw works fine when using it who cares what it does when you kill the power.
                      SSG, U.S. Army
                      Retired
                      K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Nobody has suggested this yet . . .

                        Odd that nobody has suggested starting and shutting down the saw with the belt removed. (Or did I miss it?) If there is no shudder when the motor winds down, then it isn't likely the motor. Next, try putting the belt back on and start and shut down the saw with no blade installed. Remove the nut and washer, too. No shudder? Then I'd I'd try a different blade. Still shudders? Then at least you know the problem is somehwere between the arbor and the motor.

                        I've had this sort of thing on another saw and it was my cue to tighten the pulleys on both the motor and the arbor. You could also have a bad belt. If the motor bounces around in its mount as it comes to a stop (causing the shudder?), that would indicate a bad belt.

                        Belts can be bad and look fine. If you determine it's not the motor (above) and not the blade, and both the motor and arbor pulleys are tight and in their correct spots on their respective shafts, what else could it be?

                        I'm sure you're getting real tired of all these possible fixes, but any of them would be better than starting from scratch with a new saw. Since the saw worked fine when you first started using it, my bet goes with something simple that happened to it while you were using it.

                        What did you do just before you experienced the problem? Change blades, rip through an oak 4x4?, any service procedures? Tilt the arbor?

                        Time to play detective. Good luck and hang in there. That's an excellent piece of equipment!

                        Hiloguy
                        Unanswered Questions
                        are far less dangerous
                        than Unquestioned Answers.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          after trying EVERYTHING that you guys suggested over the past week and a half i've given up- i had to dismantle it to get it into my suv and it's going back for an exchange tomorrow. thanks everyone for trying to help

                          rocky

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            once again, thanks for all the friendly advice, guys.

                            i ended up exchanging my saw for another one, and even though it was a pita the new one is now up and running- perfectly! i re-read all the assembly tips on the forum and i'm glad i did- i found most of the bolts attaching the trunnion to the top were barely hand tightened.

                            i added a plywood extension to the saw stand for extra storage, dust collection, and base stability- now i just have to build a router extension.

                            thanks again,
                            rocky

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Glad to hear you now have one that works right. Mine has been a joy to use. So now on to makin' sawdust!!

                              Go
                              Practicing at practical wood working

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X