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  • #16
    Re: Router bits

    djb

    Maybe you could contact Amana and Freud customer service and ask them. Also, you might look at high speed, but not carbide tipped bits for use on plywood. While they sure won't last as long when cutting wood, they also can't have the tips fly off as there aren't any to do so. My thought is to save your really good router bits for non plywood use. I really doubt that's what damaged your bit(s).

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    • #17
      Re: Router bits

      You guys got me movin'. I sent an email to the Amana Tech Support and Sales folks to see what they say about using their bits on plywood and any warranty that may be available. I also found some literature on the Amana website that states, "Carbide router bits provide an excellent finish in solid hard and softwood, wood by-products such as MDF and plywood, and abrasive materials such as plastic, CorianĀ® and other solid surface sheet goods." I'll post any response I get from Amana to this thread. If I don't hear anything from them, I'll print the Amana document and re-visit my friend at the local woodworking store.
      [Side note: I try to patronize local shops, but I'm often surprised at the lack of customer support in these places. If they offer no customer support, they must realize it's much easier for me to do business online and have stuff delivered to my door. Don't they(?)]

      I also found an interesting review of router bits here.

      In the meantime, I ordered the plywood bit set online from MLCS. Out of 17 brands of bits tested in the above review, MLCS came in 6. Dead last was Jesada, the most expensive bit in the test (and they had problems with Jesada bits breaking in half!).

      - djb
      sigpic

      A Democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

      Restore the Republic.

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      • #18
        Re: Router bits

        Just a sort-of related anecdote along the same lines as the plywood question posed above...

        My local BOB (I don't know if this is nationwide or just our lame stores) will no longer cut plywood or MDF on the in-store panel saw. They claim the glue causes undue wear and tear on the saw blade and motor. Since this puts a serious inconvenience on getting these products home (they only fit in my SUV when cut lengthwise) I questioned the logic and legitimacy of this policy... Since arguably the only use of a panel saw in a home improvement center is to cut plywood and MDF...

        So, I read up on this and it does, indeed, turn out that both these products contain substances and chemicals which do cause extra wear on both router bits and saw blades. It makes sense since MDF is tougher than most woods, if you consider surface hardness and what-not.

        Not that this would or should stop me from using both products with either my router bits or saw blades. I adjust my feed rate down slightly when cutting either of these, but the bits/blades are there to be used, right?

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        • #19
          Re: Router bits

          I'm in the same boat as you... if you replace "SUV" with "Sunfire".

          If my local HD stopped cutting stuff for me, I'd have to stop buying it from them.

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          • #20
            Re: Router bits

            Originally posted by Wood_Junkie View Post
            My local BOB (I don't know if this is nationwide or just our lame stores) will no longer cut plywood or MDF on the in-store panel saw. They claim the glue causes undue wear and tear on the saw blade and motor. Since this puts a serious inconvenience on getting these products home (they only fit in my SUV when cut lengthwise) I questioned the logic and legitimacy of this policy... Since arguably the only use of a panel saw in a home improvement center is to cut plywood and MDF...
            Most normal businesses figure in the cost of wear and tear on the machinery as a part of doing business. This expense is either factored into the cost of the goods sold or as an add-on cost to the individual customer who chooses to use this service with the first option as the norm.

            I agree with you that there is no logic in that policy and why they choose to antagonize customers by refusing to provide that service is ridiculous and very stupid on their part.
            ================================================== ====
            All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism.

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            • #21
              Re: Router bits

              I agree with BD. But, one has to understand what or who you're trying to deal with. Chances are that if you return to the same store and ask another associate, you will get an entirely different answer! I know that in my local store that are as many stories as there are "orange aprons".

              A couple of years ago, I wanted to buy some sheet goods to build some simple book shelves. But at the time, I had an injury and couldn't handle a full sheet or much of anything with great weight to it. So I asked if they could rip the panel into four pieces for me. That was met with an "ABSOLUTELY NOT! We do only one cut" So, I went with pine boards instead.

              A few months later I was doing a lot better and went into the same store, but different guy! I need this cut into two pieces, each 4 x 4. "Sorry, we can only rip the long way" Duh!

              The following week I was in the store and heard the panel saw buzzing away, so I looked down the isle to see what was going on. Sure enough, there was an orange apron, cutting a sheet into about eight, fairlly narrow pieces. So I stopped at the pro desk to ask what was the policy...."Two cuts for free, the rest we charge a $1.25 a cut."

              So, like I said, there's a different story from everyone you ask... or is it for every day you ask, or maybe it's just a shift thing.

              There are times when it's just easier to go to the old time lumber yard and tell them what you want, they help sort through the stock, cut it, and load it and then toss in a free yardstick. If you want a lot, they'll send it up on the next truck delivery. It might cost a couple of bucks extra for a sheet or board, but what a difference in service.

              CWS
              Last edited by CWSmith; 02-09-2007, 06:45 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Router bits

                CWS

                And how on the customer service part. &^%%#@ the big hogger home centers. When it comes to part about wearing down the tips on saw blades, everyone should think of how many miles of plywood have been sawed. Maybe there is more wear, but what are saw blades and sharpening services for? To get work done.
                Last edited by Woussko; 02-09-2007, 06:40 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: Router bits

                  Originally posted by Wood_Junkie View Post

                  Since arguably the only use of a panel saw in a home improvement center is to cut plywood and MDF...
                  Lol, thats a pretty darn good point! I can kind of see not wanting to cut MDF as it really can be harsh on equipment and is also supposed to be pretty nasty healtwise in the particles released. Plywood though, I doubt will damage the motor and if you're cutting enough paneling to cause significant wear on the blades, you're probably already making more money on the cost of making the cuts.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Router bits

                    Add-on

                    I've had trouble getting the &^%$# guys at Home Depot or Lowes to cut an 8 foot 4 x 4 in half. I ended up sawing it myself with my hand saw in the parking lot. GRRRRRRR When they feel like being lazy, they BS their way out of doing work. Then when you factor in the way they are treated like slaves by their employer it's no wonder.

                    Anyway good luck with customer service and your router bits. Unless there was something like a little piece of hard steel or a tiny stone inbedded in the plywood (it does happen) I doubt using your router on plywood was the cause.
                    Last edited by Woussko; 02-09-2007, 10:27 PM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Router bits

                      Maybe I'm missing something here, I have to drive 26 miles to get to a Home Depot or a Menards, and all these stores carries 2'x2', or2'x4', or 2'x8', or 4'x4', in many different types of plywood, from cdx to oak. Sanded one side to sanded both sides, so whats going on that everybody needs a 4'x8' sheet ripped to those dimensions, they don't sell plywood in your area's already cut?
                      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                      http://www.contractorspub.com

                      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

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                      • #26
                        Re: Router bits

                        garager

                        I think the main problem comes when a customer wants something cut to a size or length they don't normally sell. It's more than just sawing. It's that anymore most "big box" stores totally lack customer service.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Router bits

                          Update on my router bit chip saga...

                          I had an email discussion with an Amana rep today, and after crawfishing just a little, he agreed that a carbide chip in their router bits when used on plywood is not considered to be normal wear and tear. Then he told me to take the bit back to the dealer I bought it from, and they will evaluate it and decide whether or not to send the bit back to the Amana factory and let the factory make the call.

                          His crawfishing included comments like "I have seen chips in the past but most of the time it has been due to operator error." From the tone of the discussion, I'm expecting to be told the chip is a result of operator error, either by the dealer or the factory. But I'm going to take it back and make them tell me.

                          More later.

                          - djb
                          sigpic

                          A Democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

                          Restore the Republic.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Router bits

                            At this point, it'd be better for both parties if they just exchanged it. Why tarnish a reputation over one common profile router bit? Guess I could understand if it was a 3" panel raiser, but getting the run around over this seems foolish to me even if you were at fault. You paid for one bit so they're not losing much.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Router bits

                              Just figure it's worth mentioning that my local HD has been extremely helpful with making cuts for me.

                              There's a big sign by the saw that says something like "first 3 cuts free, $1 per cut after" or some such thing.

                              I've used it a few times now to get stuff cut exactly the size I need.

                              Last time I used it was to make the lower panels for my shower. They made at least 4 cuts for me and when he was done I said "So then... what do I owe you?" and he basically shrugged me off and said "You really want me to charge you?"

                              No complaints about service at my HD.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Router bits

                                Please note that WW is up in Canada and people up there are of different thinking than down here in the USA. It really depends on who's working the department. Some of the "Orange Workers" have been great help to me, and others are like *&&^%$#@ at best. I have found a big difference in which HD I go to. Some of their stores are nice and others are one huge mess with very un-happy staff members.

                                Note to myself: Please log off and take a week (if not longer) vacation from this forum.

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