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  • MinWax WipeOn Poly/Help...

    I don't know if its me or the product. This is the second project I've used the Wipe On Poly over 2 coats of oil base stain, allowed to dry per manufacturers recommendations, and I'm wiping off the stain while applying the poly. After the first project I thought I'd minimize how many strokes I used to apply it to see if it would reduce the amount of stain it removed, but no luck. I'm using a lint free cotton cloth to apply it.
    The results I have seen vary from blotchy to an overall lighter color. Anyone have any luck with this product. Good plan, good cuts and joints and its square too, just to screw it up right at the end. Help....

  • #2
    I have yet to try using a wipe on poly so bear that in mind. I have on the other hand long ago given up on all of the MinWax products I've ever tried. I'm sure there are plenty of people who swear by MinWax but I've never been real satisfied with the results I've gotten using their stuff.

    Not sure if it makes a difference in this case but what type of wood were you using?
    Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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    • #3
      Like BadgerDave...I haven't used the wipe-on Poly. I'm not a huge fan of poly finishes any more. I prefer to use oil-based finish and leave it at that.

      That being said, one issue could be how the oil-based layer is sanded before applying the poly. If that sanding isn't done consistently, it could yield blotchy results. The poly doesn't want to stick to the oil, in general, I don't think. If I were to try this, I'd let the oil finish set for a minimum of 24 hours in a moderate environment (no less than 55deg. F and no more than 50% humidity). Then I'd sand with a 400 grit, or maybe even scotch-brite (the green synthetic pad). The sanding would have to be very even over the entire surface. Then wipe down, blow off, wipe down again (I haaaaaaate having dust in the poly!!), and apply very thin layers of the wipe-on. More thin layers would seem to work better than fewer, thicker layers.

      I'd also think that, as BadgerDave implied, the type of wood would have a huge effect. Something like oak will soak up the oil stain less than something like a pine. Even the difference between quarter-sawn and flat-sawn would make a difference in the oil's penetration. That will lead to having to sand more or less between coats. Finish with any kind of poly is always tricky and very demanding on your sanding skills.
      I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

      Comment


      • #4
        One key step with oil stain is to wipe off the excess before it dries. With open pored wood like red oak, you may have to wipe it down several times as the oil seeps back out to the surface. If the stain is too thick, it really just gels, and is easily put back into solution by the solvent (mineral spirits, etc) in the wipe on poly. You may want to do a light damp wipe with mineral sprits before the first poly coat.
        With the minwax, I usually let the stain dry 24 - 48 hours before topcoating.

        Go
        Practicing at practical wood working

        Comment


        • #5
          You can use a "wash coat" before staining to smooth out the color and ease the blotchy look. I mix one part clear lacquer to 4 parts lacquer thinner and either brush on or spray on. Let dry, lightly sand with 220 or higher, then stain.

          As far as the wipe on poly goes, when you are wiping it over an oil type stain, some will come off. My suggestion is to spray it with lacquer sanding sealer to lock in the stain, then sand it and then begin putting on the poly.

          I do mostly production lacquer finishing but have done some poly jobs when water was going to be a problem.

          Mark
          Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

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          • #6
            Will that work

            Originally posted by The Wood Meister View Post
            You can use a "wash coat" before staining to smooth out the color and ease the blotchy look. I mix one part clear lacquer to 4 parts lacquer thinner and either brush on or spray on. Let dry, lightly sand with 220 or higher, then stain.

            As far as the wipe on poly goes, when you are wiping it over an oil type stain, some will come off. My suggestion is to spray it with lacquer sanding sealer to lock in the stain, then sand it and then begin putting on the poly.

            I do mostly production lacquer finishing but have done some poly jobs when water was going to be a problem.

            Mark
            I thought that polyurethane would not adhere to lacquer. Wouldn't using a poly over even a dilute lacquer based sealer cause the poly to separate over time?

            Comment


            • #7
              Should clarify one thing. The lacquer wash coat should be made using sanding sealer, not gloss.

              If the lacquer is dry and done off-gassing, poly or latex will bond fine after a light sanding. Most painters use a white lacquer undercoater for INTERIOR house trim before applying the gloss oil paint OR semi-gloss latex. I have never had a problem using lacquer as an undercoater or wash coat. I even know guys that thin poly with lacquer thinner to speed up the drying time, but I personally would NOT TRY THIS!!! LOL

              Making a wash coat with poly would work fine too, I was just thinking of dry time. The lacquer dries very quickly and can be sanded usually within 30 minutes in cool weather, quicker as the temp climbs.

              Mark
              Last edited by The Wood Meister; 01-15-2007, 09:53 PM.
              Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

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              • #8
                I thank you all for your input. Sounds like its time for me to do my home work on finishing. Maybe get a couple of books and articles under my belt before the next project. So much to learn, and so little time. Thanks again...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by cjh20 View Post
                  I thought that polyurethane would not adhere to lacquer. Wouldn't using a poly over even a dilute lacquer based sealer cause the poly to separate over time?
                  You can apply "poly" over lacquer with no problem, as long as the surface isn't too glossy. The reverse is where the problems occur. The "poly" for wood finishing is actually more of a varnish, and if you apply lacquer, or lacquer thinner over dried poly/varnish or enamel, it can cause it to wrinkle or peel.

                  Go
                  Practicing at practical wood working

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    MINWAX WIPE on GEL STAIN

                    I sometimes use wood conditioner, or I spray a lite coat of fast drying poly. It will seal the wood somwhat that is porous. This will allow the stain to be more even lookin. This is a commmon technique used in chip carving staining.

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                    • #11
                      The easy solution is to get a stain/poly combination in one can. You can stain and apply poly in one step without problems.
                      Oak and porous woods need more care when staining, applying a thin coat of shellac before applying stain helps. You absolutely must wipe off all excess stain about 15 minutes after application and allow plenty of time before applying wipe on poly. Wipe on poly contains thinner and it will remove enough stain to make your work look less than what you desire.
                      www.TheWoodCellar.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: MinWax WipeOn Poly/Help...

                        Originally posted by Gofor View Post
                        You can apply "poly" over lacquer with no problem, as long as the surface isn't too glossy. The reverse is where the problems occur. The "poly" for wood finishing is actually more of a varnish, and if you apply lacquer, or lacquer thinner over dried poly/varnish or enamel, it can cause it to wrinkle or peel.
                        Go
                        Gofor and Wood Meister,

                        I had heard it was a reciprocal problem. Thanks for the correction.

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                        • #13
                          Re: MinWax WipeOn Poly/Help...

                          cjh20: My comments were directed at woodworking and the coatings commonly used for it. One of the problems with coatings discussions are the terms used. "Polyurethane" can be a mainly varnish based coating (as is sold at Lowe's or Home Depot) or it can be a two or three part catalyzed coating. Both have urethane components, but the properties of the end coating are quite different. "Lacquer" and "Enamel" are two other terms. They are commonly used on the spray-bomb labels. It has become very hard to distinguish what you are really getting and spraying an "enamel" spray bomb over an enamel coating may have disastrous results if the spray bomb includes methyl-ethyl-ketone or acetone as one of its solvents. "Epoxy" is one that hasn't been too badly mis-used yet, but probably will be soon.
                          What you heard is true in the sense that a true polyurethane has stronger adhesion to a correct primer than lacquer coatings have to each other. What fails is the bond of lacquer coating to lacquer coating, not the bond of the "polyurethane" to the lacquer surface. When it comes to extreme environmental exposure, polyurethane over lacquer may not be the best choice. Also true is the some lacquer thinner formulations may adversely affect some highly sophisticated true polyurethane coatings in an environment where air speeds are over 700 mph and temperatures vary from -50 to 350 degrees.
                          Those factors do not apply here, but don't totally discount your source. The key to selecting a good coating is knowing what the material is and what it will be subjected to.

                          Go
                          Practicing at practical wood working

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                          • #14
                            Re: MinWax WipeOn Poly/Help...

                            I've used the above product on two projects with very satisfactory results. My most recent was a quarter sawn white oak pie safe which I completed just this week. I stained with an analyine die, applied a spit coat of sanding sealer/shellac and then wiped on several coats of the poly. It turned out great and I did not have any washout of the stain!

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                            • #15
                              Re: MinWax WipeOn Poly/Help...

                              Gofor.....good info in your post.

                              When someone says "poly", I immediatelly think of products like Minwax Polyurathane. I like the product fine. I've tried their "polyshades" and think they suck! Never could get the color even when brushing or spraying.

                              As far as lacquer adhesion goes, the good thing on lacquer is the re-melt when applying multiple coats. Lacquer does not rely on a mechanical bond but actually "melts in" to the previous layer. Polyurathane on the other hand, does not melt in to previous coats, unless they are still really tacky and still gassing off.

                              Like you say, it's getting harder and harder to know what you end up with anymore. I was told that Minwax QUARTS are formulated differently than the GALLONS. I found this to be true when buying a gallon of Early American. Talk about junk!! It was the worst crap i've ever used! So for now, until California ruins ALL finishing products, I buy quarts only, or have Frazee mix me up a custom "no oil" fast drying stain.

                              I even saw a commercial for Krylon WATER BASE spray paint in cans! Now that's got to really suck!!

                              Mark
                              Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

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