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  • How would you make this cut?

    My first post and I see a number of folks from another forum here that helped me a great deal in a "contraption" I plan on building and recommended the TS3650 which I'm about to buy this weekend. I have to say that this will be my first TS and I'm totally new to woodworking.

    So,the attached image is not to scale. What it is is a 2x4 that I need to cut at a 7 degree angle for a distance of 4 1/2 inches. My neighbor, who has a woodworking shop that is close to the total square footage of my house (he has EVERYTHING and more) cautions me against rip cuts. On the 'other' Forum where I started asking my newbie questions, I began by questioning whether or not I could make this cut with a dado blade. But after thinking about it, I realized that, try as I might, I couldn't get the cheek (that alsmost half inch piece at the end of the cut) to be horizontal.

    Well since it's going to be done on the TS3650, thought I'd ask here.

    And lastly, are there any recommendations for commercial jigs or saftey accesories that a total newbie should have?

    I see some stuff here:

    http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?...&FamilyID=1093


    Thanks in advance -


    Lance
    Attached Files
    You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.

  • #2
    Re: How would you make this cut?

    Basically, you have a beveled lap joint.
    How many do you need to make(I assume at least two)?
    Table saw may not be your best option,too much of a possibility of kick back.
    If you do decide to use the saw, you'll need feather boards and a stop block and probably some sort of carrier or jig. Alot of work and effort to produce a simple joint. I'm not recommending you do so.

    Personally, I'd do one of three things.
    1) It's not a complex joint,and easily done by hand. I'd scribe out the joint, cross cut to the depth with a dozuki saw and chisel out the waste. Might take a little time, but you'll get faster as you go. (41/2 inches isn't all that big). Always do them in pairs(I assume this be will joined to a mirror image-Best lesson I ever learned). Clamp the two boards together scribe saw and chisel both at the same time. A good set of sharp chisels will more than suffice. clean up with a block plane and/or scraper. If your gluing these together give the joint some tooth by slightly running a rasp or even your handsaw down the face. Next time you'll be hand cutting dove tails.

    2) Rough it out on a Band saw and clean up the waste with chisels. Again in pairs

    3) Build a jig for the router and cut it out with a straight bit. The jig will offer repeatibility so it need not be big and you can do them one at a time. There's tons of router jig plans on the web or search "Pat Warner"(he's the router King)

    Do a search for "Beveled Lap Joint"(or Spliced Joint as some call it) should find
    some ideas. Also, you might want to consider a scarph joint (alot of plans for jigs for scarph joints out there)to accomplish the same task; joining two boards to length. Glue with epoxy and some filler.

    I think the table saw is overkill and dangerous

    Best Regards,

    Barry

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How would you make this cut?

      I think a band saw would be your best bet. I was thinking that maybe it could be done with a tenoning jig on the table saw but you cannot raise the blade high enough.
      Last edited by TOD; 02-08-2007, 06:29 AM.
      SSG, U.S. Army
      Retired
      K.I.S.S., R.T.F.M.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How would you make this cut?

        agree, bandsaw, or Japanese hand saw works great too.
        Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

        http://www.contractorspub.com

        A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How would you make this cut?

          messed up in editing so deleated and reposted
          Last edited by BHD; 02-08-2007, 12:07 PM.
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How would you make this cut?

            if your saw will raise to the height needed, (think you said 4 1/2"),
            to safely cut the bevel on the saw you use a "push block" a scrap piece of wood that will support the block being cut, I would suggest in this instant probably a section of 2x12 or 2x10 about 8" long,

            if you want it safer, you glue on a spacer and a additional leg (on the back of the push block) so it will saddle over the fence,
            glue a ply board on the back of the push block so there is a place to clamp the block to and that way you don't have two things to hold,

            it will support the block to be cut, as it is pushed through the blade, and then completely push the block through the cut, and then, if the saw can't make a complete cut in depth, you can finish it with a hand saw.

            re set the saw to cut the mouth out of the block, with the miter gage, (don't use miter gage and fence at the same time, can cause some serious kick back situations),

            it would look like the tendon jig in this web site, http://www.plansnow.com/tablesawacc.html simulat to the picture marked Tenoning Jig in bottom row or some what like the top picture,

            other jigs and plans for jigs,
            http://www.plansnow.com/tenon.html

            http://www.plansnow.com/shopjigs.html
            free
            http://www.bobsplans.com/FreeJigPlan...g/TenonJig.htm

            http://www.bobsplans.com/FreeJigPlans/FreeJigPlans.htm
            Last edited by BHD; 02-08-2007, 12:08 PM.
            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
            attributed to Samuel Johnson
            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How would you make this cut?

              Thanks BHD

              if your saw will raise to the height needed, (think you said 4 1/2"),
              It won't. the TS3650 max hight I believe is some 3 inches. Which I'm told is asking for trouble when ripping.
              You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How would you make this cut?

                Swampyankee

                These are legs for a contraption I hope to re-sell and each piece will require 4 legs. Problem is I don't have the budget for both a band saw and a table saw.

                I was hoping to be able to make it with two cuts. Using a taper jig, Set the blade height to 1 3/4 inches, make the first cut on a bunch of legs, flip the jig and make the second cut.

                Possible?

                If so, what's the risk when feeding and then retracting the board and/or techniques to avoid kickback?
                You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How would you make this cut?

                  I gotta agree with the others. Other than the kickback, you have an acute angle at the toe of the bevel. The table saw, even if you could get it up 4.5" would leave a small flat spot at 90 the width of the kerf. Bandsaw looks like the only mechanical means of pulling this off. Now, you could laminate the piece from multiple shapes. Seeing that most glue is stronger than the wood it is attaching, this looks like a pretty simple triangular prism on a rectangular prism with a half lap on one end. Is this structural or do aesthetics kill this idea?
                  Only a surfer knows the feeling. Billabong ca. 1985 or so

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How would you make this cut?

                    I tend to agree with the others above on avoiding the table saw.

                    Originally posted by Hooligan View Post
                    My neighbor, who has a woodworking shop that is close to the total square footage of my house (he has EVERYTHING and more)
                    Is there any chance you could just go over to your neighbors shop and use his band saw to make these cuts that you need since you stated you can't afford both tools at this time? This would seem like the easiest approach until you can get a band saw of your own. Or any chance you can buy the band saw now and wait on the TS for later? Not quite clear on what your project is so not sure which tool may be more critical for you at the moment. Perhaps a circular saw can then be used to get you by until you can then afford a TS, or again borrow the neighbors?

                    My $.02 worth....
                    Still enjoying all 10 fingers!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How would you make this cut?

                      I would do it with a handsaw or a good BS.
                      If you are not good with handsaws, I would suggest a router as mentioned above. This cut on a TS is an accident waiting to happen.
                      www.TheWoodCellar.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How would you make this cut?

                        Heres how I would do it.

                        Set your saw on the angle needed and raise the blade to the point where the short red line in my modifried picture is.

                        Then set your blade to the max height of the inside of the angle (blue line)

                        Then remove the rest of the stock (yellow line)

                        The only thing that seems scary to me about it is you are using a 2x4 and you will need a very flat board to pull this off.

                        Just for kicks I will have to give this a try tomorrow


                        After looking back at the original post I came up with a question... In your picture, is the top of the picture the end grain?
                        Last edited by Orange Apron; 02-10-2007, 01:18 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How would you make this cut?

                          After looking back at the original post I came up with a question... In your picture, is the top of the picture the end grain?
                          Yes it is.

                          Be back online in a while to follow-up. But just to say if anyones looking for a bandsaw, Sears online has 20% off on the 22401 thru today.

                          I just don't have the bucks right now...
                          You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: How would you make this cut?

                            If I understand the layout and question, using a table saw "could" be very easy for this.

                            I'll assume you are starting out with a 2x4 that's about a foot long? and need to cut the angle up (or down) to a depth of 4 1/2"? Do you know the angle? I'll guess at maybe 7 or 8 degrees from vertical.
                            My suggestion is to first cut where the depth of the angle is the most. (with the 2x4 laying down.)
                            Then pull the blade and install a stacked dado cutter. Set the cutter to the 7 or 8 degrees and then set the dado height so the lowest edge is zero on the table and make a cross cut. Then raise the dado some and move the board down and make another. Keep raising and moving until you get to your first vertical cut. At that point you will have a very small little ridge that you can cut out with a sharp chisel.

                            Mark
                            Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How would you make this cut?

                              Well, your post got my curiosity up and I decided to try what I suggested. It did work and worked well and was very easy to make, providing I'm doing what you want! LOL

                              I layed it out taking a guess in the depth of the vertical cheek cut. I set this at 3/4" and then drew a line back to the edge of the board. My angle came out at 10 degrees, but I did it by just taking a guess at the depth of the cut.



                              I then set the fence at 4 1/2" and made the vertical cheek cut.



                              I then put in my dado set and tilted it to 10 degrees and began "nibbling" away, starting with the right side of the dado flush with the table, then raising and moving the board a little each time.



                              Here is the semi-finished product. I held the height down a tad so I could sand it in to the final size to get rid of the dado marks. This set cuts a tad heavy on the end blades. The finish may not matter if its getting buried in a joint.



                              Here it is after about 30 seconds with my belt sander.



                              With adding in the cost of the dado set and sander, it's up there again. But maybe you could borrow those two items or enlist some help from your neighbor?
                              Personally, unless someone was getting into craft type scroll work and ONLY needed a band saw, i'd not recommend a band saw as the "first tool". The table saw is much more versitle in my opinion.
                              With that said, for making ONLY the cut you need to make, a simple jig set up to hold the piece steady, running in the miter slot and angled to 7 degrees, would work fine too.

                              Mark
                              Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

                              Comment

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