Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Speeding up the TS3650?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

    To me this seems like you either have arbor or more likely flange problems. If the blades work fine in another table saw, they are not the problem. You might ask around and try to find someone with a known to be good 10" contractor or cabinet table saw and try all of your blades in it.

    Please try each blade and note the side-side wobble. They should have very little side wobble. Hmmmm How about trying a blade stiffener and a new set of flanges? You should be able to use the flanges for a Delta (or any other good brand for that matter) Contractor table saw with the TS3650 as long as they have the same size (5/8 inch) center hole in them.

    Please take a look here. One of these might really help. I would use the ST05 for your table saw. http://www.forrestsawbladesonline.co...tiffeners.html

    Note: I'm sure with some hunting that you can find a similar one for less $$$ but these are high quality and might be worth the extra $$$. It's not like spending over $100 for a super blade.

    Artmann has a very good point that the arbor must be dead on square with the miter slots in the table or you are never going to get good cuts. Use a good machinist's ruler and measure from the blade (flat part) both front and rear over to the miter slots. Take the guard off so you can do this without it getting in the way. Check it both on the left and right side of the blade. Then do it again with the blade given 1/2 turn and note any changes in measurements. Take your time and be as exacting as you can be. Good lighting and reading glasses (if needed) are a must for this check.

    What is really getting to me is that one of your blades seems to give good cuts but not the others. That to me sure seems like it's time to check the blades and the blade flanges again.

    I wish I could just access this table saw. It's too hard trying to put into words what's in my mind at this time.
    Last edited by Woussko; 06-09-2007, 11:45 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

      Originally posted by Woussko View Post

      .... What is really getting to me is that one of your blades seems to give good cuts but not the others. That to me sure seems like it's time to check the blades and the blade flanges again.
      That's one of the things that makes me think that there may be an arbor or flange issue. The TK would be more prone to amplify those issues.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

        Originally posted by artmann View Post
        .

        I don't want to offend, but recommend you re-evaluate your measurement techniques. The symptoms sound exactly like the arbor shaft is not absolutely perpendicular to the miter groove. That is the first adjustment that must be done absolutely right. Maybe you should abandon the dial indicator method and just use the feeler gauge technique you mentioned before.

        I'm not offended
        Here's what I've done to check for blade parrallel to the miter slot. When it was new, I used a carpenter square in the miter slot and feeler gauges to find the rear of the blade was .007" closer to the slot than the front of the blade. I was able to adjust the trunions to get to .002".

        Since I still wasn't getting great cuts, I bought a dial indicator and made a little jig to slide it along the miter slot. The indicator agreed with the feeler gauges, and I've since been using it to check for runout. Most of my blades only show .002", but one Freud thin kerf showed .004"

        I currently have the rear of the blade .003" further away from the miter slot than the front is. I thought that might alleviate some of the problem, but it really didn't make much difference. I'll eventually put it back as close to dead square as I can.
        What really mystifies me is the thin blades. I'll eventually try to take a picture, but when the teeth first hit the mdf they actually vibrate sideways and the first inch of the cut is really ragged...especially on the 60 tooth version.

        As I stated earlier, I can feel no movement in the arbor if I grab it and push or pull...in any direction. With the belt off.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

          I would take a very close look at the shoulder washer. I would bet there is a burr on the washer, and it is not clamping the blade snug against the arbor. Without the blade on, slide the washer onto the arbor to see if it will smoothly slide up to the arbor shoulder and sit flat against it. It it does not, check the inside of the washer hole to make sure it is not hanging up on the end of the thread cut in the arbor. A small round file or emery paper wrapped around a dowel will clean it up if needed.
          Also check to see if the nut will run all the way down the threads.
          I recently had a similar problem with a tile saw. The blade wasn't running true, and every time I installed it, the runout was different. Cleaning up the bore in the washer solved the problem.

          Go
          Practicing at practical wood working

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

            I'll throw this out from my "newbie standing in left field" perspective. Is it possible that the blades, having been used on the Ryobi, are just "set" to that saw? You've probably tried a new blade...but it's an idea.
            I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

              This may seem a little wacko but I would buy a low cost all steel fine (80-120) tooth blade in 8" size and try it for some cross cutting of scrap 1 x 4 or 1 x 6 and see how it works. Before powering up, check it for runout. An 8" blade costs less than the same in 10" and works fine on a 10" table saw. You just end up with 1" less cutting depth and they are stiffer at the edge where the teeth are. Try to find a nice think full kerf blade. It won't be a waste as you can use it if you ever need to cut trim or if you need to saw used lumber that might have a nail in it. It may ruin the blade (hitting nails) but unlike a carbide tipped blade you won't have a "shotgun" table saw with flying blade tips. With any circular saw it's good to keep one (or more) low cost junker blades for sawing up scraps that just may have a nail or two in them.

              In addition while I know some will say not so, I have found that for sawing small trim wood that an all steel blade with nice tiny teeth does less damage than say a 60 tooth carbide tipped blade will. That's especially true for people that a not used to sawing it with the tipped blade. Put simple, a fine tooth blade will sooner or later get used. For the test, just use a blade that you know is brand new and not warped or damaged in any way. Be sure it is over 0.100 thick too.

              Addition: If you think there are nails in a piece of wood you need to cut, please use a reciprocating saw if you can do so.
              Last edited by Woussko; 06-10-2007, 06:07 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                Just reading a description of your measurement technique, it sounds pretty solid and reliable. Oh well - so much for that idea.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                  I know this may be a shot in the dark, but I use the 1000se also. The extruded aluminum fence is very slick and has no grip on the material being cut.

                  I found that SOMETIMES I would experience what you are as far as the piece scraping the rear of the blade through the cut. After thinking about it, I realized that I would subliminally move the piece ever so slightly as it travelled past the blade.

                  The tendency (for me) is to hold it against the fence, and to put very slight pressure towards the blade. Because the fence has no grip, that tendancy was enough to move the piece ever so slightly so it moved closer to the blade as it reached the rear.

                  I stuck stair tread tape to the fence, and haven't had the problem since.

                  Just a thought.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                    Originally posted by wty View Post
                    I know this may be a shot in the dark, but I use the 1000se also. The extruded aluminum fence is very slick and has no grip on the material being cut.

                    I found that SOMETIMES I would experience what you are as far as the piece scraping the rear of the blade through the cut. After thinking about it, I realized that I would subliminally move the piece ever so slightly as it travelled past the blade.

                    The tendency (for me) is to hold it against the fence, and to put very slight pressure towards the blade. Because the fence has no grip, that tendancy was enough to move the piece ever so slightly so it moved closer to the blade as it reached the rear.

                    I stuck stair tread tape to the fence, and haven't had the problem since.

                    Just a thought.

                    Yeah, I'd been thinking of that also. I haven't put a sub-fence on my 1000se yet, even though most of what I will be cutting will need one. I will use something on the subfence to give some friction, to help prevent the stock from sliding rightward into the blade.
                    It'll be a few days till i can get back in the shop again, tho'

                    As a side note, I ruined my Avenger combo blade. After reading a previous poster's link about the Forrest stabilizer, and how they recommend using just one of them on the outside of the blade, I remembered having a set of Freud stabilizers. I put one on the outside, tightened it down, only to find the runout was now 20 thousandths...not 2 thousandths! It turns out the Freud stabilizer is not flat on it's face...the perimeter juts out from the center, and it requires both pieces to work properly. So by using just one, it tried to bend the blade over the arbor's flange face, which is smaller. So that blade is permanently warped now.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                      You can test to see if it is a blade or washer/arbor issue.

                      Measure the runout (or how far out of parallel to the miter slot) for each blade with your dial guage in the ryobi. I would take measurements for 6 different positions on each blade and mark each location 1 thru 6. Repeat on the 3650.

                      If both TSs are adjusted so the arbor is parallel to the miter slot, you should get the same results for each blade at each location. If the 3650 has a problem (assuming that your Ryobi cuts "perfectly") like a bur on the washer or the arbor is out of wack, you will see a difference in the readings between the two saws.

                      If the readings are the same between the two saws, but they cut differently, then at least you have narrowed down and eliminated some potential problems.

                      I'm sure you know this, but dirt, uneven coatings etc on the blade can influence your measurements which is why I say select 6 positions and mark each and measure at these on both saws. In addition, there is probably wear on the blade or on the blade coatings where they are clamped to the arbor. If the washer and arbor diameters are different, you should check this wear if any or dirt/uneven coatings are not causing a difference between the two saws.

                      Cheers Dennis

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                        jbateman -

                        I've been perusing old threads and wondered if you ever got this problem resolved(?) This may or may not be relevant, but I had a table top vibration and motor start noise on my TS3650 that I eventually learned was caused by the motor mount slipping. Details are here on another thread: Click Me I could imagine that this motor mount slipping could also cause the belt to slip, decrease the blade (motor) RPM, and perhaps cause the problems you describe.

                        Please post an update, if there is one...

                        - djb
                        sigpic

                        A Democracy is 2 wolves and 1 sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

                        Restore the Republic.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                          Originally posted by djb View Post
                          jbateman -

                          I've been perusing old threads and wondered if you ever got this problem resolved(?) This may or may not be relevant, but I had a table top vibration and motor start noise on my TS3650 that I eventually learned was caused by the motor mount slipping. Details are here on another thread: Click Me I could imagine that this motor mount slipping could also cause the belt to slip, decrease the blade (motor) RPM, and perhaps cause the problems you describe.

                          Please post an update, if there is one...

                          - djb
                          Thanks, I had looked at that earlier and have verified it's not an issue for me.

                          I've done a couple things which have improved my crosscuts somewhat. I got the blade to be exactly parrallel to the miter slot, using the dial indicator. I put an mdf subfence on the Incra miter gauge, and scuffed it with sandpaper to give a bit of friction. Also found the arbor nut is not the same on both sides, so I used 600grit paper on a granite surface plate to get one side perfectly flat, and I place that side against the blade.

                          When crosscutting narrow stock, I now raise the blade high enough so that only the down-cutting teeth touch the work, and I stop feeding before it reaches the up-going teeth in the back. And when I cut wider stuff, I make sure I push completly so that the entire edge sees both up and down going teeth. This at least makes the whole length of the cut look the same, with no swirl mark midway through.

                          I still can't say I'm as thrilled with this as the rest of you seem to be, and I'm reluctant to buy expensive new blades just to see if they'd make a difference. (Especially since the wife got fired recently...tends to change a person's priorities)

                          And I really don't understand why all my thin kerf blades are useless on the Ridgid...they just give terrible results.

                          When I need a super smooth cut on fine veneered plywood or mdf, I use the old Ryobi BT3000 saw with a Freud 60 tooth TK blade. Looks like I'll have to find some space in the shop to keep it around. They don't seem to have much resale value anyway since it was discontinued.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Speeding up the TS3650?

                            Originally posted by artmann View Post
                            I don't want to offend, but recommend you re-evaluate your measurement techniques. The symptoms sound exactly like the arbor shaft is not absolutely perpendicular to the miter groove. That is the first adjustment that must be done absolutely right.

                            While I have not read the entire tread, my first thought was exactally what Artmann says. If the blade is not exactally parrallel to the miter slot, it will leave kerf marks, EVEN If the miter guage is 90 degrees perfect to the blade, the board will still go across the blade crooked.

                            When I ck this on my saws. I put in my bestest straightest blade and make sure it's not warped or wobbling when turning. A dial indicator will aid in finding this info. Once you get the blade positioned so any wobble is on the top and bottom, the front and rear edges will be true, for test reasons anyways. I then put a GOOD straight edge on matching kerf teeth and then measure to either miter slot. I don't get into the thousands like some do but get it darn close to perfect. My old Rockwell model 10 was off a tad, my new Jet was right on, but I still ck them once in a while.

                            Mark
                            Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X