Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.

Question on draw fronts

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Question on draw fronts

    Hi, another question(s). I only ask them once though!
    Im going to build a built in and it is to be painted white.As of now im going to try and roll (medium nap) it and use brush in smaller areas. I dont have a great spray gun but I guess that would be the preferred method.Its suppose to look modern and slick not country.So if theres any suggestion on this let me know.I may go with sherman williams white paint.Unit is open shelves on top with ply back an 4 draws on bottom and two pocket doors to slide a chair under for work.Its about 90 inches w by 104 tall.

    Now on to draw face, they will be a birch plywood, flat nothing more.What should I do to the edges?Veneer? Small edges strip, if I do this will it blend in to wood? Should I just sand the heck out of it and with the paint you wont know?
    How much of a gap do you think I should leave for paint on a draw face so it still closes if I dont do an overlay door an do a pocket?

  • #2
    Re: Question on draw fronts

    If the paint is latex I would add floetrol to help eliminate brush/roller marks.
    I always like solid wood edges as they are more durable and prevent the possibility of catching the top layer of veneer when in service. I would use veneer banding at a minimum even though you are painting.
    Paint can be a bit thicker than other coatings but should not be thick enough to cause gap issues. Depending on your design and slides I would use a 1/16" gap, max would be 1/8".

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question on draw fronts

      Originally posted by wbrooks View Post
      If the paint is latex I would add floetrol to help eliminate brush/roller marks.
      I always like solid wood edges as they are more durable and prevent the possibility of catching the top layer of veneer when in service. I would use veneer banding at a minimum even though you are painting.
      Paint can be a bit thicker than other coatings but should not be thick enough to cause gap issues. Depending on your design and slides I would use a 1/16" gap, max would be 1/8".
      Thanks,
      If I use wood edging dont you think, you will be able to see it where they meet even if painted.I know the first step would be to have them perfectly smooth. These draws are 12 x 38 (big ones) x 4 draws. Pocket doors are 20x24 (both combined)

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question on draw fronts

        I agree that using wood strips will not be the best idea. No matter how you try, under the right light/reflection, the seams will show. Here is how I do painted. Some laugh but it works and works good. I"m doing a $2,500 linen cabinet as we speak in white lacquer. (it's huge! LOL) I use MDF for my raised panels and fronts. It's smooth on the face and if cut with a good blade, the edges will take very little sanding. It can be rounded over or left alone, just "break the edge" a little when sanding so you don't get any paint curling on the sharp edges. Granted, the end grain will suck up a lot of paint, but a couple of coats of a good sealer will work. I also have MDF painted drawer fronts in my own kitchen. MDF is stable and won't expand or contract like "real wood" will.

        If I was doing square edge and using plywood, i'd use an iron on wood tape for a clean edge. Personally, I do not do flush doors, just too darn hard with crooked walls and 5 piece doors! LOL They never seem to fit right. I do a 1/2" overlay door and front on all my jobs, except were I have to do retractable doors. On those, I shoot for an 1/8" gap but also set my hinges forward so the doors are standing out even with the rest of the doors when closed.


        My finish of choice is white lacquer over well sanded lacquer undercoater but i've also done latex with good results. ( I use lacquer undercoater under latex too.) I spray all mine as I cannot get a real good rolled or brushed finish. But some can. Flotrol will help it lay down.

        Mark
        Last edited by The Wood Meister; 07-12-2007, 12:25 PM.
        Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question on draw fronts

          Use a flush trim V-notch bit in a hand router and make the V right on the seam of the edging/banding and the drawer plywood. It's makes an obvious and intersting feature right where you're trying to hide the fact there's a seam.

          Here are some options:
          http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=8074


          http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops.../bt_flush.html
          (scroll all the way down)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Question on draw fronts

            Originally posted by Wood_Junkie View Post
            Use a flush trim V-notch bit in a hand router and make the V right on the seam of the edging/banding and the drawer plywood. It's makes an obvious and intersting feature right where you're trying to hide the fact there's a seam.

            Here are some options:
            http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=8074


            http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shops.../bt_flush.html
            (scroll all the way down)
            I like the idead but wont fly with client. Its good to learn about that though.
            Thanks

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question on draw fronts

              Originally posted by The Wood Meister View Post
              I agree that using wood strips will not be the best idea. No matter how you try, under the right light/reflection, the seams will show. Here is how I do painted. Some laugh but it works and works good. I"m doing a $2,500 linen cabinet as we speak in white lacquer. (it's huge! LOL) I use MDF for my raised panels and fronts. It's smooth on the face and if cut with a good blade, the edges will take very little sanding. It can be rounded over or left alone, just "break the edge" a little when sanding so you don't get any paint curling on the sharp edges. Granted, the end grain will suck up a lot of paint, but a couple of coats of a good sealer will work. I also have MDF painted drawer fronts in my own kitchen. MDF is stable and won't expand or contract like "real wood" will.

              If I was doing square edge and using plywood, i'd use an iron on wood tape for a clean edge. Personally, I do not do flush doors, just too darn hard with crooked walls and 5 piece doors! LOL They never seem to fit right. I do a 1/2" overlay door and front on all my jobs, except were I have to do retractable doors. On those, I shoot for an 1/8" gap but also set my hinges forward so the doors are standing out even with the rest of the doors when closed.


              My finish of choice is white lacquer over well sanded lacquer undercoater but i've also done latex with good results. ( I use lacquer undercoater under latex too.) I spray all mine as I cannot get a real good rolled or brushed finish. But some can. Flotrol will help it lay down.

              Mark
              Thanks Mark all good advice. Im a bit hesitant to use MDF but I have heard alot of good things about it when painting it. Should I do anything esle out of it? Like shelves? I do plan on putting a hardwood strip on shelves probaly 3/4 thick by 3/4.
              When you spray someting like your linen closet, do you have a booth? No I dont work for osha, lol. Just wondering how you'll do it.
              I understand the 1/2 inch overlay but you say an "front on all my doors" do you mean face frame showing in between draw fronts or you will maybe leave a 1/16 to 1/8th gap in between each closed draw? I only have one draw going over the other on both sides but there huge draws.
              Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.
              Craig

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question on draw fronts

                Hi Craig. I spray in my shop. I use an airless and cover most my stuff and have 6 furnace filters inside a frame that fits in my entry door. I run my evap cooler for good airflow.

                "Front" refers to "drawer front", sorry.

                I build face frame. I shoot for atleast 1" showing between everything, sometimes more depending on the size of the job.
                I've seen so many kitchens and ent. centers with 1 3/4" or 2" styles and rails. My min. style and rail width is 2 3/8" (math works out good too when figuring the rail lengh) and sometimes up to 3 1/2" on really big doors. IF I have 2 doors coming together, I shoot for 1/8" between or a tad less.

                Mark
                Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question on draw fronts

                  Originally posted by The Wood Meister View Post
                  I agree that using wood strips will not be the best idea. No matter how you try, under the right light/reflection, the seams will show. Here is how I do painted. Some laugh but it works and works good. I"m doing a $2,500 linen cabinet as we speak in white lacquer. (it's huge! LOL) I use MDF for my raised panels and fronts. It's smooth on the face and if cut with a good blade, the edges will take very little sanding. It can be rounded over or left alone, just "break the edge" a little when sanding so you don't get any paint curling on the sharp edges. Granted, the end grain will suck up a lot of paint, but a couple of coats of a good sealer will work. I also have MDF painted drawer fronts in my own kitchen. MDF is stable and won't expand or contract like "real wood" will.

                  If I was doing square edge and using plywood, i'd use an iron on wood tape for a clean edge. Personally, I do not do flush doors, just too darn hard with crooked walls and 5 piece doors! LOL They never seem to fit right. I do a 1/2" overlay door and front on all my jobs, except were I have to do retractable doors. On those, I shoot for an 1/8" gap but also set my hinges forward so the doors are standing out even with the rest of the doors when closed.


                  My finish of choice is white lacquer over well sanded lacquer undercoater but i've also done latex with good results. ( I use lacquer undercoater under latex too.) I spray all mine as I cannot get a real good rolled or brushed finish. But some can. Flotrol will help it lay down.

                  Mark
                  Hi,( this question isnt just for Mark) today I read an article about building cabinets with MDF that are going to be painted, that came out a few months ago in a mag called "Built Ins"
                  They reccommend using all (except draw carcasses) MDF 3/4 standard density. As far as the edges are concerned use drywall compound and then sand so paint wont soak into end grain as much.
                  What do you think of using all MDF so the surfaces will remain the same for paint. I read that 28 inch should be max span for 3/4 mdf.I will not have any spans further than that. There will be several shelves, if I do use MDF for shelves is it a must to edge band with maybe 1/4 inch hardwood for stability? Like I said I think only two spans are 28 or 29 and the rest are like 16 inches.
                  I think the top and back I will use ply.You wont see the top after done since it will going to ceiling minus 1 inch, but yet it will be strong.

                  Thanks again

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question on draw fronts

                    Well, my thoughts on your project.
                    First off, MDF has some very good quailites and some real bad ones too!

                    I would think twice before building any cabinet out of MDF for a couple of reasons.
                    First being the weight. 3/4" weighs in at just under 100 pounds a sheet! (93 I think). It's a real back breaker trying to manhandle by myself and even worse to install completed cabinets. I"ve done it but will avoid at all costs now that i'm fighting a pulled tendon in one arm.
                    Second is its tendency to split when shooting it together. It's SO dense there is little room for fastners. I use 18 guage by 1 1/2" brads in my nailer and it does ok most of the time. I like to use the correct drill/countersink and use screws on the box too.

                    Given the choice, I prefer to use a cheaper "shop" grade of Maple or Birch, much lighter, cost is not too much more and it nails much better. Then paint it as usual. I also like to use Melimine on the boxes and then a smooth wood like Soft Maple or Bass wood for the face frames and door frames, then prime with a good lacquer undercoater, sand and top coat with either a good quality (Behr is my favorite) Latex semi gloss OR lacquer tinted to match what the customer wants.

                    End grain can be filled with drywall mud or Famowood solvent based putty. Then sanded and painted as usual.

                    On the span of the MDF, that stuff is hard and ridgid and I would not go past 32 or so inches. When I face shelves that will show, I put on a 1 1/2" face for added strength. If it's a utility cabinet, I just edge tape it and paint it.

                    Mark
                    Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question on draw fronts

                      OK So ive learned NO MDF. I wotn do it. Im going to use american birch ply because it has no plugs.If I see some Russian Birch Ply with no plugs on one side Ill buy some of that or mix.

                      I have a Husky Multi Purpose Spray Gun, is that a HVLP gun that I can use to spray this unit? Bought it at HD it was the only one I think that could spray Oil based paints.
                      Can I use just veneer tape for the edges of the shleves if I dont edgeband it? Ive never used veneer tape or veneer for that matter.
                      I have meeting with client tommorrow I will try to talk her into a lipped edgeband.

                      Thanks again

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question on draw fronts

                        If you can find a nice smooth plywood, I think you'll be happy with the outcome. I would still not hesitate to use the MDF for the drawer fronts though. It works fine. Just not for the entire job.

                        I'm not familar with the Husky gun. I have a conventional cup gun and use it sometimes for small jobs in lacquer or latex. Latex is tough because it's soo thick. It will need to be thinned a bunch to get it to flow in a cup gun. I like an airless better and you could always rent one at HD for a few hours and give it a try, however, most of the ones they rent are set up for spraying HOUSES so be careful on the amount coming out. Latex will run! In my little airless that I use, I use a 311 flat tip for lacquer and a 411 for latex on cabinets. On a house, a 715 would be good! LOL

                        Mark
                        Congratulations to Mr. "the sky is falling" Al Gore, nominated the new Village Idiot!

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X