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My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

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  • #16
    Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

    I couldn’t find anything in the 3650 Operator’s Manual concerning cutting thin slices off narrow boards but I did find reference to several methods in Mehler’s Table Saw Book. I have an l-shaped ¾” mdf fence that I clamp to the rip fence for cutting thin sections where the push stick won’t fit between the fence and the saw blade guard. Long Hair uses a jig for a stop on the left side of the blade to set his cut strip width thus he holds the outboard width constant and adjusts the fence on the right side of the saw to whatever stock he’s cutting from. This is a great idea and one that I will certainly use in the future. I’m wondering, though, why it is necessary to remove the jig every time I make a cut. If I could use the jig much like a feather board I could solve another of my worries – how to hold the work piece firmly against the fence without putting my right hand in the line of fire behind the blade. If I leave the Long Hair Stop in place to use as both a stop and feather board what kind of trouble am I asking for?

    Thanks for all your help you all. Amongst this great group of master craftspersons I feel like the piece of pork and a can of pork and beans.


    Bill

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    • #17
      Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

      Don't leave the jig in place because it becomes a pretty solid "trap", maybe still resulting in a kickback. The flex of the featherboard keeps the piece against the fence, but allows movement, so things won't bind. You could use a featherboard when making these cuts as long as you keep it well away from the blade, so that you are not pushing the thin strip into it.

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      • #18
        Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

        You're right on, Long Hair. There's no reason why I can't remove the stop and place a feather board in front of the blade guard an inch or two. Good thought and thanks for the fatherly advice.


        Bill

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        • #19
          Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

          Fatherly?...........Thanks man, retired kinda makes you older than me.

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          • #20
            Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

            i am retired and only 34
            9/11/01, never forget.

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            • #21
              Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

              I can relate to this incident. While doing a reno in an older kitchen, I had to trim some cabinet doors, and one of the cut-offs shot back and stuck in the wall. Not to mention another kick back after a "bind" that gave me a 12" horizontal bruise across my stomach. That’s why I'm always standing clear of the blade from now on........ but I still have all my fingers !!

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              • #22
                Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                May I add my 2 cents...

                I would recommend reading this article that explains with images the kickback.
                http://www.waterfront-woods.com/Arti...w/tablesaw.htm

                I'm from the "Blade High" group...

                There is another reason for a kickback that is not mentioned in the article...
                When you rip-cut a wood (not a man-made boards) that has internal stresses, those stresses are released just after the front teeth of the blade and the part that is between the fence and the blade, bends to one side.

                If this part is bending toward the blade, the splitter or riving knife will keep the kerf from closing on the blade (that's the reason that riving knife is mounted some 1/8" behind the blade) but...

                If this part is bending toward the fence, well, the fence is clamped to the table and the wood starts to press to the side that it's easier...the blade...in this case, I'm not sure that the splitter or even the riving knife will protect against kickback because the splitter/riving knife are flexible.

                To overcome this problem, a "Short Fence" must be used.
                The "Short fence" extends to only 1~2" beyond the front teeth of the blade and if the wood bends toward the fence...the fence is not there so, nothing to press on and the wood is just bending to the side (see ilustration below)

                The "Short fence" is "standard" in European table saws (by law) but you can make it just by adding or clamping auxiliary short fence to the existing long fence.

                I read on many forums that "the riving knife will prevent kickback", I think that it's not exactly so...the Riving knife in European saws is only one part of perverting kickback, the other part is the short fence...that's the reason that the European safety regulations does not require the "Anti-kickback pawl" that is standard on US saws.

                Saying that, I admit that I'm not an "angel" and I do use long fence...homemade, the saw comes with a short fence...

                Well looking up on my reply...it looks more like $100 and not "2 cents"
                Sorry for the long reply

                Regards
                niki
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                • #23
                  Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                  It took me over 70 years to figure out that age doesn't necessarily equal knowledge (or wisdom). Thanks again my father.

                  I use two pieces of 3/4" mdf glued together as a "short fence" by clamping them on to the rip fence (usually). I started out using the short fence as a sacrificial fence when making rabbet cuts but figured out if I turn it around aI have a good short fence. After reading Nicki's comments above I'm going to make its use routine. I may even use those left-over parts from assembling the saw (if I can still find them) to utilize the t-slot in the side of the fence.

                  Blind Bill

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                  • #24
                    Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                    Hi Bill

                    I'm "younger" that you are (63) but old enough to agree with your statement about age and wisdom.

                    I just thought that maybe it will be interesting for you to see a "Euro saw".

                    On the pics you can see the fence and the sliding table (39" before the blade).

                    I just forgot to mention a small detail.........it cost money and a lot.....

                    Regards
                    niki
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                    • #25
                      Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                      Well to set the record straight, I'm 44.

                      niki,
                      I see your point, but in all of the "real wood" that I have cut, I have never seen the fence side bow enough to cause a problem. Yes I have had enough side load to get some burning, especially in cherry, but not enough to worry about.....I hope. I like the short fence idea though. Why are we so behind in America? We have to buy a very expensive imported cabinet saw just to get a riving knife. The standard around here is an above the table mounted box-type guard on a PowerMatic 66.

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                      • #26
                        Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                        Hi LONGHAIR

                        To tell you the true, I also did not experience anything like that (but I'm only an amateur for 13 years) and that's the reason that I mention that I'm not an "angel" and I do use a long fence (you will not see the short fence in my posts pics).

                        I just mentioned the stress release as another possibility for a kickback...at least, according to the "law makers".

                        I don't think that you are "behind", I think that it's more to do with the "market demand"... the saw on the pics costs around $2000 and it's not a full professional version...just Aluminum table, no throat plate, no dado blade can be installed and one 3/8" miter slot...I'm not so sure that anyone would by it in USA for that price.

                        Just to give you 2 examples;
                        The Bosch 4000 that costs in USA around $500 costs in EU More than $1000...how many people would buy the Bosch for $1000... riving knife or not...
                        Hitachi M12V router...around $120 in USA....$600 in EU....

                        Sometimes (well, not sometimes) I turn green when I see the price difference...

                        I think that the "high" European standards are because of the Unions that want's to make it safer for the workers but this "safety" costs money.
                        From 2008, all the rotating machines must obey the law "the machine must stop within 10 seconds"...no problem but, who do you think will pay for that....yeap, you are correct, we will...

                        Regards
                        niki

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                          I am of the opinion that the cost of "true" safety practices and equipment is far less than any benefit that you might think you are gaining by not using them. Most of the time we think we are saving time and when something does happen we would give anything to get those few seconds back. Most of the accidents that I have seen or heard about were occured when the person knew better. They just didn't listen. Some do happen out of ignorance, which is just as unfortunate, but many times the person was doing something that they didn't think about, because something else was more important at the time. They didn't want to "waste" the time it would take to "set-up" the proper equipment, to reach around the guards that should be there, or make some kind of hold down other than their own fingers.

                          The best safety tool is your own head...the second best are the ones we use with-out thinking about them. Meaning that they are not in the way or require much adjustment or fiddling. That's what I like about the riving knife, no thought about it, it's just there doing it's thing. Magnetic feather boards, good push blocks/sticks, etc. are simple easy things.

                          I work in a commercial shop, so many times there are things that are repetitive, at least for the duration of the job. Jigs and hold-downs take some time initially but they save in the long run.

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                          • #28
                            Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                            http://benchnotes.com/Strip%20Cuttin...ting_gauge.htm

                            here is one approach and you can leave the guard on.

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                            • #29
                              Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                              Another practical thought I've had in the recent past....the way my shop is configured, our water heater is sort of behind the table saw. It might behoove me to ensure I angle the saw (thanks once again to herculift!) just a little to the northwest, to ensure any kickback that misses me hits the concrete wall, instead of the water heater.

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                              • #30
                                Re: My next bit of safty kit = bullet proof vest

                                I used to cut 1/2" solid formica for cabinets (used in hi-tech labs) if you think kick-back from wood is bad try solid formica---almost like steel. We always set up gigs. Really simple---short fence--"push board" with a top handle and blade only 1/16" above work piece. This way you end up pushing cut piece past the blade and your hands never come near the blade and with blade lower there is less blade to catch material

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