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  • TS2424 on overload?

    Had a new experience last night. Was making some deep (1 3/4") cuts on oak & maple. After humming along for around 10 min. the saw kicked off (thermal protection?), tripping the breaker. After waiting about 5 min, was able to reset the motor, then the breaker. This happened 2 more times within 30 minutes.
    This circuit is 110v on about a 12 ft. extension cord (10 ga.)-- all industrial strength connectors. The ceiling-mounted outlet is ~20' from a 200 amp panel on a 30 amp breaker, (12 ga. unless I disremember).
    Oh yeah, about 18° and unlimited visiblity.

    My question is, would 220v wiring have helped me avoid triggering the overload protection? Was using a moderate feed rate --motor didn't seem to be loading too heavily.

    Thanks for your response.

    Rodney

  • #2
    I believe that 220v draws only about 6-8 amps vs the 15 or so with 110v. Plus I was told that the motor runs significantly cooler with 220v. Might be an option.....

    Comment


    • #3
      I doubt you overloaded the motor, unless you got into a binding situation that wasn't described in your post, and your post was unclear about whether you tripped the breaker inside the motor or the breaker in your panel. Likewise, I hope your note about a 30A breaker on a 110v circuit was a typo. I suspect there is something else on this circuit that caused an overcurrent on the circuit, which tripped the panel breaker.

      Wiring the motor for 220v will give you a bit more margin before it overloads (and therefore trips its internal breaker) but not much; it is still a 1.5 hp motor. Wiring the motor for 220v will, however, usually end up with the saw on its own private circuit, which will prevent trips caused by other loads on the same circuit.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thx for the replies.

        No binding when incident occurred; the motor tripped and caused the panel breaker to trip; 30 amp double pole breaker on 110 is correctamundo. Is this a big no-no, that might fry my shoppo?

        Comment


        • #5
          RGads right, a 30 amp breaker on a 110v circuit is not correct at all. The largest 110v circuit you should have, with certain exceptions, should be 15 amps. You haven't by chance got two 110V circuits wired through a 30 amp 220v breaker (which is possible)? Tripping on side of that breaker would trip the other side due to the connector bar between them. I would have an electrician inspect your panel ASAP.

          Also it’s unlikely that the thermal overload tripping caused the breaker to trip. Once the thermal overload went away, any power draw through the breaker would have stopped immediately. I'd be willing to bet the breaker tripped first (possibly due to an incorrect configuration).

          Jake

          Comment


          • #6
            Another clue is "double pole breaker." There is no physical way in a house distribution panel to insert a breaker in the neutral line of a 110v circuit, and every line that is attached to a breaker that is attached to the bus is attached to a hot leg. Something ain't right.

            Comment


            • #7
              o.k., I give up. The blade won't make another turn on that circuit. I'll take the face plate off and see what's up with it.

              Jake: 15 amps max? Don't think there's a 15 amp breaker on the panel. All the others are 20 amp.

              Sounds like the services of a real electrician may be in order, although it's been about 5 yrs since it was originally wired by an "electrician" (small e).

              Thx for all the input.

              Rodney

              Comment


              • #8
                It is definitely possible that you may have mostly 20 amp breakers (but unlikely). If you do all the outlets on those circuits should be the a 20amp/15amp type. In other words the left(I think) spade on the receptacle could receive either a horizontal or vertical spade.

                Jake

                Comment


                • #9
                  Jake, my house is wired in all but two circuits with 20a 110v breakers (in a Federal Pacific box , but that's another topic).

                  Maybe it's a Texas thing? I cannot cite the NEC section, but there is a provision for allowing 15a outlets on these 20a circuits, thereby not requiring us to use those wacky 20a versions.

                  Dave

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Woodbutcher,

                    Do you know everything that is on that circuit? It sounds more like a circuit overload than a saw overload. If this is the case, not getting enough juice to the the TS2424 could cause the thermal breaker in the motor to activate. The same overload would also cause your panel breaker to trip.

                    A dedicated circuit, whether you stay with 110 or convert to 220 is probably going to solve your problem. Even if there are other factors that you discover, a dedicated circuit is worthwhile on its own merits. With the correct circuit, (dedicated, proper gauge and length of run), the difference between running your saw on 110 or 220 while noticable is IMO only minor. The bigger differences seen from conversion usually have as much to do with moving from a non-dedicated to a dedicated circuit.

                    You mentioned a double pole breaker which would indicate a 220 circuit. If that is in fact the circuit you are pulling 110 from at the outlet be careful. I beleive this was at one time long ago ok but if memory serves me, this this no longer acceptable by code.

                    You may also want to check those 20 amp circuits. 20 amp is the highest amp allowable on a 110 and should be served with a 20 amp type outlet as Jake indicated (combo ver & hor spade). The real question would be has those 20 amp circuits been run with the correct gauge wire. Again, if memory serves, a minimum of 10 gauge for a 110 20amp line would be required. Remember, the panel breaker is there to protect the circuit wiring and utlimately your house, not the things we plug into the outlets. A 20 amp breaker is going to allow more of what amounts to "heat" to build up on those wires before it trips. The wiring better be able to handle the potential load.

                    My 2cts would be to have a qualified electrician have a look to be on the safe side. A small price to pay to ease your mind and insure your safety.

                    Wood Dog

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "a minimum of 10 gauge for a 110 20amp line"

                      That's more like a maximum, for a multi-conductor raceway run. Twelve gauge is commonly (and properly) used for 20a wiring (copper, NM), unless a larger gauge is required for specific circumstances.

                      Dave

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agreed Dave: 12 ga is standard for 20 amp per the NEC: Dawg
                        He who dies with the most power tools wins!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Woodbutcher, There's been a lot of discussion here that's been informative and accurate but IMHO the focus should be on your statement "30 amp double pole breaker on 110 is correctamundo". This is definitely wrong on a 110 v circuit, and is in need of a serious look-see by a good electrician! Good luck. [img]smile.gif[/img]

                          John

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            OK OK OK,

                            12AWG is listed as the "min." for 110 20A. One thing to keep in mind though, if you are maintaining a min 5% voltage drop, your max line length is 87.5ft with 12 AWG. Moving up to 10 AWG pushes the length out to 138ft.

                            BTW, NEC lists min. AWG requirements. I haven't seen a max. There are practical limits and cost considerations with "over" gauging but the real problems occur when you under gauge. 10 AWG is certainly no fun to wrestle with but if I'm gooing to err, I'd rather err to the high side

                            Reduce those constraints and let the big dog run. [img]smile.gif[/img]

                            IMHO.......The important point here is to have an electrician take a look. This is too important to your safety.

                            Wood Dog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Maximum is called out by the devices connected. For example, a description from a Leviton Decora Plus:

                              "All Decora Plus receptacles feature:
                              Back and side wiring options with eight deep-funnel backwiring holes that accept No. 10 to 14 AWG copper and copper-clad wire."

                              As you can see, greater than 10 gauge cannot be used on these receptacles. The breaker may have a similar restriction.

                              Just jawing now, because what I absolutely agree with JJs comment, and your last paragraph, Dog.

                              Dave

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