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the final word on inserts

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  • the final word on inserts

    i see that it was generally agreed that the leecraft rg-1 was the best insert for the t3650. i didnt see what was good for the t2400. i thought there was a thread that stated that the rg-1 didnt quite fit into the slot, and that it stood a bit "proud". i cant find that thread now.

    so, once and for all what is the last word on the inserts for the t2400.
    there is a fine line between woodworker and tool collector....

  • #2
    Re: the final word on inserts

    well, it only took me 2 minutes to find what i needed after looking for 20 minutes before i made the post.

    it was hokiejoe who had the bad experience with the insert, but any other input on 2400 inserts will be greatly appreciated and helpful.
    there is a fine line between woodworker and tool collector....

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: the final word on inserts

      Have you ever considered making your own? Use the insert that came with the saw as a pattern. With a jigsaw or band saw, router and a pattern bit you can knock out a bunch of them in no time.
      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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      • #4
        Re: the final word on inserts

        yes i did. it turned out to be a complete debaucle. i used the doule sided tape my company made and it would not seperate from the wood. i couldnt even burn it off.(dont know how we lost that business). next, i tried hot melt glue. well, that wouldnt stick properly. as soon as i tried to rout the shape the two pieces flew apart in opposite directions. finally i got everything to stick together and routed then the little tab in the back gave me a hard time routing. even when i got that right the damn thing didnt fit properly. after too far long a time of scraping an filing it was just "good enough".

        i am more than a novice at this woodworking thing of ours(7 years), so i know when to say when. i will pony up a few bucks and just get store bought.
        there is a fine line between woodworker and tool collector....

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: the final word on inserts

          Let me throw in something here, it is my understanding from everything I have read about the zti's is that the back tab is not needed on the 2400 and also from what I have read you really don't need the screw hole to hold it down in the front? Once you have made it and have cut it in then it is there and should not move. I have not made one yet but I was about to in a few days.

          Also did you use carpet tape? it holds extremely well but sometimes it's a bit hard to get apart and get the tape off but I have found it to work very well when using a pattern bit.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: the final word on inserts

            When I have to rout to a pattern, I'll use "turner's tape" to stick the pieces together. It has less twist than carpet tape, IMO. It holds really well, so you use it sparingly. Tape nearer the center, leaving the edges open so you can get some prying action in between the template and the new piece. I don't bother with the tab. If you really want something there, use a pin of metal. I also don't bother with the screw. To shim the piece to size, I use tape. Either duck tape or painter's tape...whatever's handy. Drill a large-ish hole in the ZCI away from the area where the blade will come through. This will make installation and removal a LOT easier (learn from experience...without that hole you're trying to pull it out with a flat-blade screwdriver...just not a nice thing to do!).

            Once you have the piece to the right size, put in an 8" blade (like one blade from a dado set). Lower the blade all the way down, put in the ZCI and move the fence over to hold the ZCI in place. Make sure you're not near where the blade will come up, though. Turn on the saw and slowly raise the dado blade up. Try not to let it come through the surface. You don't need much of a relief cut in the bottom of your ZCI...just about 1/4" will do. Turn off the saw, lower the blade and switch to your final blade for this ZCI. Put the ZCI back in place and again, use the fence to hold it down. Turn on the saw and raise your blade through the ZCI. Keep going until you've got the blade as high as you'll want. You can always cut more...you can't cover up.

            That's how I do mine for the 3650. I'm sure the 2400 isn't much different. The double-sided tape is tricky to work with...it really pays to use it sparingly.
            I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: the final word on inserts

              Another note regarding the tab in the back. I seem to recall another member here (BobD. I believe) who suggesting using those tabs/clips/whatever they are called that are used to hang mirrors. Just attach that to the back of the ZCI and instant tab. I have not tried it yet, but thought it a good suggestion and plan to do so on my next ZCI.
              Still enjoying all 10 fingers!

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              • #8
                Re: the final word on inserts

                You can spend ages trying to get tape residue off of items once it's on there. Especially if you use some good quality tape.

                However, there is a way to do it. I've used this to remove even duct tape residue from wood/plastic and metal. There is a product you can get at just about any home improvement store called "Goo off" it's petrolium based and doesn't seem to do much harm to the wood I've used it on.

                What you want to to is try to scrape off as much of the non-glue paper, fibers etc as you possibly can. Then grab a paper towel spray on the goo off onto it then rub it into the material. Eventually it breaks down the glue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: the final word on inserts

                  I just finished making a few ZCI's for my 2412 using the router and flush bit method. I didn't have any carpet tape handy so I thought I'd just try it with rolled masking tape. Worked out well, just have to make sure you push in the right places so the pieces don't shift.

                  That got the overall shape perfect. Then I just used the table saw so that the ZCI would sit recessed on the ledges that hold the insert at the right height. With a little get bit of luck I managed to get the right height right off. Otherwise you can get it to sit a little low and shim it up with tape. I can post pictures of the process if you'd like, thought it might not apply to your particular problem with the 2400.

                  ps, Thanks for the tip on the mirror hangers. I was just trying to figure out how to do that and I've got a few of them in a drawer!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: the final word on inserts

                    absolutely, show pics.. a pic is worth a few fingers
                    there is a fine line between woodworker and tool collector....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: the final word on inserts

                      Note. These pictures are just to help you see what I mean in the descriptions. I've already made a few ZCIs and didn't feel like going through the whole process again just to show true action shots.

                      Step 1
                      Cut a piece of melamine covered mdf (or whatever you are using) to approximately the right size

                      Step 2
                      Stick the original insert to the ZCI blank using tape. Something stronger than masking tape is probably a good idea. I made due though, just make sure you keep pressure on the tape so it stays together, and push on them both together.
                      step2.jpg

                      Step 3
                      Use a router and flush trim bit to get the new ZCI blank to the right size. Note, my bit was slightly too short so I had to pre-trim the underside of the ZCI. I think you can see what I mean in the picture. (Note the gheto router table. Yes, it is just an Ikea shelf I pulled out of the garbage)
                      step3.jpg

                      Step 4
                      Now the the outline of the ZCI is right, pre-cut the slot. I don't have a blade smaller than a 10", and a 10" blade fully lowered on the 2412 sits right at the table surface. I held it in place with a 2x4 clamped at either end of the table over top of the original insert and raised the blade so it just cut through the new insert. You can also do step 5 first, and then hold the insert in place by placing the fence over top of it (but not where the blade will come through!) and raising a smaller diameter blade through the insert.
                      step4.jpg

                      Step 5
                      We have to get it to sit at the right height on the table (see the ledges the existing insert sits on below). I did this using the table saw to remove a uniform thickness of material slowly from the underside of the new ZCI. Trace the approximate amount to remove first. You can either be very careful to just remove the right thickness, or take a little more off and then shim it up using tape.
                      step5.jpg

                      Done.
                      donea.jpg

                      Additional things you can do.
                      1) Drill an extra hole to make removing the insert easier (shown)
                      2) Add a hole for the front hold down screw (shown)
                      3) add a clip for the rear hold down. As mentioned above you can use a mirror clip, or just a little metal tab for this. You may want to remove material from the rear of the insert so the clip is at the right height. I haven't done this yet but probably will.
                      4) add a splitter (ala http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...w00066_sb1.asp)
                      I haven't done this yet, but this was the main reason for me making my own ZCI. I bought the saw used and it didn't come with the guard/splitter. (any one know where I can find one?)
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by tpwade; 02-06-2008, 11:52 PM.

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