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  • #16
    I agree with Raphael, that is the primary function of a TS fence. If it does that then it's a good fence.
    Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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    • #17
      As to economy, agreed----$300 for a Biese' may not be for everyone, but it doesn't make a stock fence good by comparrison. In my case, it was either junk the saw (since the old two-point Craftsman fences were junk) or buy the Biese'. In that case, it was a cheaper propsition to add a good fence.

      If I had a 3612, no, I likely wouldn't add a Biese' as long as the fence stayed aligned and hadn't gotten damaged, but two-point fences do have the issue of proper alignment----which, on some models, can be harder to align than a Biese'.

      Now, to extend the point----personally, I wish they sold table saws "bare-foot", so you could add a fence of your choice----whether you preferred a Biese', Incra, etc. Otherwise, I also point people to saws that come with a good fence, since I've been there and done that with junk fences. Your first choice is also important if you want a bigger right table extension than the stock model. There are pros and cons to having a good sized extension, but again, this is a choice that's cheaper to make initially. The 3612 was a good choice with a much better fence, but there have been people immediately asking about table extensions. So, it just pays to plan ahead a bit.

      Personally, I think General has the right idea----you can get their saws with a cheapo fence or a
      Biese', and have your choice of rail lengths, so you can get what you want in the first place, with the obvious savings in the long run.
      Dave

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      • #18
        Can't I just use old saw horses. A straight two by four and two yard sale C clamps? Pull out my trusty circ saw and do the same thing.

        I'm only out 5 bucks that way.
        Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

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        • #19
          That works for ripping plywood.
          For accuracy,easy repeatability, smooth cuts, dados, bevels, and other misc. things, you cannot use a circ saw.
          www.TheWoodCellar.com

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          • #20
            Rafael,

            But I can bevel, miter and then use my sander to smooth it. When its time to repeat I just use the same measurement when I put my homemade fence on the next piece of wood. If I am off by 1/32, a sander will fix that in no time. Few cabinet shops worry about getting closer than that and most high production shops seem to be happy with a 1/16th any more.

            I cannot dado this way but I can use the same homade fence and a medium quality router to do the same thing as a dado.
            Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

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            • #21
              Plumber
              Your right you can cut wood as close as most need it your way. In fact I watched a Ukranian craftsman construct a 20 foot wall of built in book cases using a hand saw to rip and crosscut the wood to size. He was about half done cutting the wood when I found out what he was doing. I offered to cut the rest of the wood for him on my saw and he waved me away. I then went to get my circular saw and when he saw it he just smiled and keep cutting. So I watched in awe.
              While I didn't count I would guess there was 6 shelves with uprights every 4 feet. Not only did he hand cut all the wood he hand planned cove and ogees for the crown molding and base molding and installed the case. While I never measured I would say he was dead on with every cut. I saw him rip 4/4 pine 8 ft x 11 inch board to finish width of 10 inches and straight enough that when ply was nailed to the back and painted (no putty) the paint filled the crack. In other words his cut was dead straight. He did have to hand plane join one or two of the boards. I believe I remember seeing him take two swipes on one board and no more than a half dozen on the other to get it flat enough.

              At lunch time he would sharpen his tools, scarey sharp, sharp enough to make a tear form in you eye when you realized he did it with a piece of sandpaper he always carried in coveralls and a whole lot of skill.

              The only thing I wish was I could talk Ukranian so I could ask more questions. This guy had more skill in his one finger than I have in my whole body.
              Rev Ed

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              • #22
                Originally posted by RevEd:
                </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Mark M:
                I have not put a Biesemeyer fence on a 3650, but I can assure you that the fence it comes with is in no way shape or form comparible to a Biesemeyer. I am not saying the fence on the 3650 is bad, it just is not fair to compare it to a Biesemeyer.
                I have just got to ask fair to whom? The 3650 fence? The Biesemeyer fence? Or to the people that paid $300+ for $50 worth of steel and a name?

                Come on a fence does one thing. Keeps the wood a specified distance from the saw blade. I know there is all that talk about deflection, Locking down out of parallel and etc. But most of it is just talk today. When the Biesmeyer hit the market there was a need but in today's world most, not all, but most fences have met the challenge.

                I often wonder why when talking about Biesmeyer fences no one mentions it's short comings but are quick to point out every other fences problems?

                How come no one mentions that Biesemeyer fence in fact most after market fences are ridiculously priced? How comes no one mentions if you mess up the surface of a Biesmeyer fence you have to nearly destroy the entire surface to get it off the metal frame to fix it? How come no one mentions that it is almost impossible to mount aux fences and such since there is no t tracks? How come no one mentions that if you do put a hold down it will pick up the back end of the fence unless you use a separate c clamp? How come no one mentions that if your cuting very thin laminate you have to figure a way to put an aux fence on the fence or the material will go under it?

                When you say not fair are you talking from experience or just what you heard everyone else say?
                </font>[/QUOTE]This is a joke right? Actually I thought some of the same things until I owned/used one.
                I have used both and there is no comparison. You can add a t track to the top easily,most WW slip over aux. fences, you do not have to push the fence back to square it,due to the heavy steel construction it will last forever and the faces are very durable and can be removed(you have to replace the entire fence box on the ridgid),I know of no one who has done it due to wear(keep it waxed),cursor read is the best available,no plastic handle,easily clamped to the rear rail,if you need to do that AFTER it is locked and will always be square just by pushing the arm down,numerous tests show deflection is a non issue and some slight deflection at the rear could actually help prevent kickback.(the fence extends beyond the table rear)
                The weight is also an advantage and it is easy to dent the AL ridgid rail & fence if a metal object hits it. Not in the same league or price.The debates are unifence/Beis usu. Never heard of anyone wanting to put a ridgid fence on another saw.
                I love my sears 22124/Beis saw,glad the arbor issue allowed me to rtn. the saw. The ridgid is not bad but not close to a Biesmeyer commercial.
                They really should get rid of the plastic handle on the ridgid fence.
                Not trying to be insulting, but I know nobody that would trade fence systems.

                Comment


                • #23
                  200 years ago everything was made with hand tools also. How long did it take to rip those 8 foot lengths of 4/4 pine? I can do it on a TS or with a circ saw in about 10 seconds.
                  You can walk from LA to New York or save a little time and fly on a plane. Some things are better done with handtools, ripping is not one of them.
                  www.TheWoodCellar.com

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                  • #24
                    I would say that the fence that came on my TS2400LS is very nice. I don't know about the others because I haven't used them. I will not be replacing it with a newer "better" fence because I don't intend on using this saw as my primary table saw when I finally get a real wood shop. Then I will go with the higher quality.

                    As for whether or not a ridgid fence is as good as any other fence out there, I think it is simply a matter of opinion. You can state facts all day long, but when the sun goes down, what matters is that the fence does what I need it to do, when I need it to do it.

                    That's my 2 cents worth, from a newbie at woodworking so take it with a bunch of salt.
                    Character is doing the right thing when no one is looking.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I was actually playing devils advocate with the last two posts on this thread. While i firmly beleive everything I wrote, I do own a table saw. In fact I had two but sold the newest one, it had a biesemeyer fence. The Fence was made in the USA, and the way the saw was displayed I thought it too was made here. When I found out the saw itself was made in China it did not get unpacked the rest of the way. By advertising the Biese fence with the saw it sold the first day it was advertised and the buyer did not even wince at the price. In fact the gentleman was at my home by 8:15 am the same morning as the ad so no one else would get it.

                      My little cheap bench saw is also an import (not from communist China) but its fence holds quite straight for 4 cuts. Have not made any more repetitive cuts than that so it may hold true for more than that or it may not. Perhaps when I retire and spend more time playing with wood I will get a cabinet style saw again, until then spending that much for a high end saw and fence again is a waste of dollars to me.

                      In high school wood shop, my record cabinet, my vanity, the boards glued for my lamp and butcher board and bird house were all cut by circ saw with a 2x4 fence.

                      Today I make my living primarily with metals and plastic and appreciate having the finest tools available for my trade. A lot of that comes down to personal preference. In the wood trades it is probably the same, my personal experience with wood is not enough to allow me to make a judgement either way towards what is or is not the best woodworking equipment.

                      If someone can afford the most expensive equipment and tools available for his hobby then I say more power to him and hope he enjoys them. If a person does not have much cash but is willing to invest the time, I would wager his projects could be of the same quality (if not quantity for obvious reasons)as that of the wealthier fellow.
                      Work hard, Play hard, Sleep easy.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Andrew Benedetto:
                        [This is a joke right? Actually I thought some of the same things until I owned/used one.
                        I have used both and there is no comparison. You can add a t track to the top easily,most WW slip over aux. fences, you do not have to push the fence back to square it,due to the heavy steel construction it will last forever and the faces are very durable and can be removed(you have to replace the entire fence box on the ridgid),I know of no one who has done it due to wear(keep it waxed),cursor read is the best available,no plastic handle,easily clamped to the rear rail,if you need to do that AFTER it is locked and will always be square just by pushing the arm down,numerous tests show deflection is a non issue and some slight deflection at the rear could actually help prevent kickback.(the fence extends beyond the table rear)
                        The weight is also an advantage and it is easy to dent the AL ridgid rail & fence if a metal object hits it. Not in the same league or price.The debates are unifence/Beis usu. Never heard of anyone wanting to put a ridgid fence on another saw.
                        I love my sears 22124/Beis saw,glad the arbor issue allowed me to rtn. the saw. The ridgid is not bad but not close to a Biesmeyer commercial.
                        They really should get rid of the plastic handle on the ridgid fence.
                        Not trying to be insulting, but I know nobody that would trade fence systems. [/QB]
                        Andrew with all due respect and I'm not trying to start a war or anything but I think you also told me how wrong I was saying the 3650 had some problems. Then you finally got mad at yours and took it back citing everything I said was wrong.
                        Now you have a Sears and you love it and I'm glad your happy.

                        However the shortcomings I mentioned about the Beismeyer are in fact shortcomings and everyone that has a beismeyer knows them. Most accept them because they believe the good aspects of the fence out weigh the bad. And they are probably right. But nonetheless they are shortcomings of that fence.

                        All I'm saying is some aspects of the Ridgid fence address some of the weaknesses of the Beismeyer. I think that fact alone should be considered in Ridgids favor. I also said I think there is too much made over fences. A fence is a fence and I think it is crazy to pay $350 for what you get with a Beismeyer.
                        Again I say this with due respect and I'm not trying to start a war.
                        Rev Ed

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                        • #27
                          What about the scale? Does anyone put 100% faith in the fence being accurate by using the scale only or do most of you measure the distance between the fence and the blade with a ruler or caliper?

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                          • #28
                            I do not rely on the scale, if you change the blade then the scale can no longer be accurate.
                            www.TheWoodCellar.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Desmo888:
                              What about the scale? Does anyone put 100% faith in the fence being accurate by using the scale only or do most of you measure the distance between the fence and the blade with a ruler or caliper?
                              I rely on my scale unless I change kerf thickness. Once I know it's accurate, it'll stay that way. I calibrate the cursor for a thick kerf blade, then if I change to a thin kerk, I add a dado shim between the arbor flange and blade to make up the difference in thickness. That way I don't have to recalibrate the cursor.

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                              • #30
                                I can speak from personal experience since I added a Bies to my 2424. The Bies is a far superior fence IMHO. I went with the homeshop version with 12" left and 40" right. I paid about $400 for the fence, rails and side table. I decided on the standard homeshop vs the Ridgid specific. The reason being that I wanted the 40" right but did not have enough space with the 24" left that the Ridgid version has. One thing to be aware of with the standard homeshop version. You will no longer be able to use the stock blade guard unless you modify the rear rail. Not only will you not be able to use the guard, you will have to remove the guard mount as well. I figured out that I could not use the guard right away, but the mount removal I figured out the hard way. I tried to set the saw to a 45 bevel, and it got real hard to turn at about 40. All of a sudden I hear a pop and then it easily went to 45. What I discovered was that the guard mount hit the rear rail. The pop was the mount breaking. Another ill affect of this blunder was it totally screwed the alignment of the saw and I had to re-align it. No permanent damage (other than guard mount) though. Bottom line I love the Bies compared to the old fence. Much better capacity and more accurate as well. The main reason that I upgraded was because I was having issues with accuracy. For some reason I never figured out, I could not use the scale on the fence due to accuracy. The kicker was it was not off the same amount over the length of the scale. It would vary by different amounts at different distances. I checcked the scale and it was accurate. Got tired of trying to figure that one out. The Bies is dead on at any distance
                                -Rob<br /> <a href=\"http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/\" target=\"_blank\">http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/</a> <br />Damn, I hit the wrong nail again. Ouch that hurts

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