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  • Biesemeyer fence

    has any 1 ever put a Biesemeyer fence on a ts 3650? or is the fence it comes with just as good?
    ________
    portable vaporizer
    Last edited by RODDY; 01-22-2011, 11:30 AM.

  • #2
    I have not put a Biesemeyer fence on a 3650, but I can assure you that the fence it comes with is in no way shape or form comparible to a Biesemeyer. I am not saying the fence on the 3650 is bad, it just is not fair to compare it to a Biesemeyer.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mark M:
      I have not put a Biesemeyer fence on a 3650, but I can assure you that the fence it comes with is in no way shape or form comparible to a Biesemeyer. I am not saying the fence on the 3650 is bad, it just is not fair to compare it to a Biesemeyer.
      I have just got to ask fair to whom? The 3650 fence? The Biesemeyer fence? Or to the people that paid $300+ for $50 worth of steel and a name?

      Come on a fence does one thing. Keeps the wood a specified distance from the saw blade. I know there is all that talk about deflection, Locking down out of parallel and etc. But most of it is just talk today. When the Biesmeyer hit the market there was a need but in today's world most, not all, but most fences have met the challenge.

      I often wonder why when talking about Biesmeyer fences no one mentions it's short comings but are quick to point out every other fences problems?

      How come no one mentions that Biesemeyer fence in fact most after market fences are ridiculously priced? How comes no one mentions if you mess up the surface of a Biesmeyer fence you have to nearly destroy the entire surface to get it off the metal frame to fix it? How come no one mentions that it is almost impossible to mount aux fences and such since there is no t tracks? How come no one mentions that if you do put a hold down it will pick up the back end of the fence unless you use a separate c clamp? How come no one mentions that if your cuting very thin laminate you have to figure a way to put an aux fence on the fence or the material will go under it?

      When you say not fair are you talking from experience or just what you heard everyone else say?
      Rev Ed

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      • #4
        Amen Rev!

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        • #5
          I have a 3612 with the ridgid fence. I have never had a problem, there has been no deflection, it doesn't move when locked down, nothing has broken on it, no problems at all. I have better things to spend $350 on.
          Use your ridgid fence and if you don't like it then get something else.
          www.TheWoodCellar.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RevEd:
            How come no one mentions that Biesemeyer fence in fact most after market fences are ridiculously priced? How comes no one mentions if you mess up the surface of a Biesmeyer fence you have to nearly destroy the entire surface to get it off the metal frame to fix it? How come no one mentions that it is almost impossible to mount aux fences and such since there is no t tracks? How come no one mentions that if you do put a hold down it will pick up the back end of the fence unless you use a separate c clamp? How come no one mentions that if your cuting very thin laminate you have to figure a way to put an aux fence on the fence or the material will go under it?
            Because, they paid $300+ for $50 worth of steel and a name. [img]tongue.gif[/img]
            Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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            • #7
              Well----have to say it's obvious many haven't used a Biese'.

              I pretty much echo Mark M's comments. The fences on the 3612 and 3650 are superior to other stock fences on mid-to-low end table saws.

              But, there is nothing like a Biese' for pure accuracy and being beafy. Besides, if it was so over-rated, why is it that every other manufacturer of high-end table saws and cabinet saws either cloned it or licensed a copy??? Why is it that the newest Craftsman saw uses a Biese' fence?

              I bought mine, for an old Craftsman (by Emerson) 13 years ago----1 1/2 years after struggling with the sad stock fence then.

              Anyway---to the question. The main thing to check is how the rails would mount relative to existing holes and the miter slots. You can check with Biese for the best model for the saw. Just make up your mind as to how big you want the table extension on your saw, as they come in different sizes.
              Dave

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by daveferg:
                Well----have to say it's obvious many haven't used a Biese'.

                But, there is nothing like a Biese' for pure accuracy and being beafy. Besides, if it was so over-rated, why is it that every other manufacturer of high-end table saws and cabinet saws either cloned it or licensed a copy??? Why is it that the newest Craftsman saw uses a Biese' fence?

                Dave
                I have used a Biesemeyer fence and they are good. Although a I prefer the unifence but they have short comings too.

                You asked a question, "why is it that every other manufacturer of high-end table saws and cabinet saws either cloned it or licensed a copy???"

                I think the answer is obvious, it sells machines. that does not mean they are the best just that they are the "in" thing and if you put one your machine it will sell.

                You and I both know the cost of these fences to OEM is far below current market. So for a little money you can add to your product what the public perceives as a $300+ upgrade. That my friend is smart business.

                I think the question everyone needs to asking themselves is, is the technology in this fence worth an additional $250 over the cost of the material put in it? Particularily when there are so many clones and other fantastic fences on the market for a lot less.

                To me the 3650 fence over comes many of the Biesmeyer shortcomings. First with the back locking there can be no deflection no matter how slight it might be in the Biesmeyer. Second the 3650 has handy attachment points, which allow you to easily attach sacrificial faces, hold downs, stop blocks, jigs and speciality guides. third while heft may spell quality to some to me it also means I have to heft it around. The 3650 fence is much easier to manage. Fourth the Biesmeyer requires longer guide rail compared to the 3650 with the same capacity. That means there is less room and more poking out.
                Rev Ed

                Comment


                • #9
                  In absolute terms, I agree with Mark and Dave, the Biese is a clearly superior design. There are varied opinions of it's virtues and faults, but it's the industry standard and is the most highly copied fence on the market. Rev Ed makes a good point about the cost of that superior design....a real Biese isn't cheap. If you were to purchase a Biese at retail price and put it on the 3650 it would run in the $350 range for the commercial version...not sure how much the home shop version is, but many saws in this price range now come with a Biese or good Biese copy as a stock fence....Griz, GI, Bridgewood, Sears 22124, Woodtek, King, Canwood, and even the Delta T2 is an offshoot of the t-square design....these are all within reach for < $700 including the fence.

                  I disagree with Rev Ed about the inability to add jigs...there are dozens of aux fence jigs that can be made in an hour, or there are aftermarket versions of the same things. I also think your view on the marketing is a bit skewed....commercial shops want the Biese type fences because they're excellent performers, rugged, foolproof and easy to setup and use. Pro shops could care less about trends and fashion. Word spreads from there...manufacturers offer it because people want it. The faces aren't a big deal to replace either...come on, we're woodworkers...that task shouldn't hinder us a bit...plus destroying the faces to replace them seems ok to me since you wouldn't replace them unless they were no longer functional. In a hobby shop environment, I'd guess those faces will hold up just as well as a plastic handle.

                  How many would prefer a Biese clone if it were available as the 3650's stock fence at similar price? Many of the clones are available in the $200 range, plus some offer t-slots if you prefer them (Griz). Assuming the fence on the 3650 would fetch over $100 on Ebay (probably much more), it makes the purchase of a good aftermarket Biese style fence a more attractive investment IMHO. The next step is to convince Ridgid to make it a stock item at the same price...

                  The poster's question was "is the 3650's fence just as good as a Biese". Both are capable of holding a board parallel to the blade for a rip cut. Which you prefer is certainly a matter of opinion. The cons of the Biese are typically viewed as pretty trivial (~ 1/64" of deflection) under 20# lateral pressure). The cons of the 3650's fence are less trivial IMO...more difficult setup, the ability to rack and lock down out of parallel, softer metals, and a plastic handle are all things I'd prefer Ridgid to improve on. The same base saw package with the Griz's fence and miter guage for under $650 (with occasional 10-20% discounts) would make for an impressive combo.

                  [ 05-09-2005, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: hewood ]

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                  • #10
                    I've also never driven a hummer, but I can get around town faster, easier and cheaper in a Toyota.
                    Point is for most of us $350 would be a waste over the stock fence.
                    www.TheWoodCellar.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rafael:
                      I've also never driven a hummer, but I can get around town faster, easier and cheaper in a Toyota.
                      Point is for most of us $350 would be a waste over the stock fence.
                      Would you upgrade your Toyota for a Lexus if the price difference was $0 to $100? $350 is the high end of the upgrade possibilities and assumes that you recoup $0 for the stock fence. For $350 I wouldn't do it either...

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                      • #12
                        How much can you get for a stock fence?
                        Avg toyota is about 18 or 20 grand. Avg Lexus is over 40. Big dif. The value depends on how much you drive.
                        Same thing with the fence. If you rip 100 feet of wood a year the bies is a waste of money. If you rip 100 feet a day that is another thing.
                        www.TheWoodCellar.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rafael:
                          How much can you get for a stock fence?
                          Here's an Ebay link to a new Sears 22114 stock fence. It's at $129.50 with more than 36 hours remaining on the auction and has 4 bidders. The price will likely go higher and it's likely that the 3650's fence would fetch more.
                          fence link
                          Edit: This Sears 22114 fence ended up selling on Ebay for over $175...

                          [ 05-11-2005, 08:53 PM: Message edited by: hewood ]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I am enjoying this dialogue. There have been some good points made here.

                            Some have made the analogy of cost vs. price. The example kicked around is $50:$350 or a 1:7 ratio. It seems to me that this is a bit excessive.

                            Using this ratio and the cost of the AC1036, ridgid replacement fence, at a retail of $150 please read:

                            Ridgid AC 1036 fence article

                            and not taking into account inflation since the article was written, then is the cost of the Ridgid Fence would be $21.34 or lets just say an even $25 to go easy on the grey matter(all things being equal) and the question would be, "Do you get your money's worth for that price? - Is the ridgid fence a lesser, equal, or greater value at "half" the cost?" However, this is mostly academic because neither the Ridgid nor the Bessy can be purchased for "cost" on the open market.

                            Which brings me to one last question. - HooRah!! Since I respect the thoughts and opinions of those who haunt this BBS, I am wondering how do y'all rank what is most important in a rip fence?

                            [ 05-05-2005, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: Desmo888 ]

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                            • #15
                              The most important features for me is that it remains parallel, and doesn't move during sawing.
                              www.TheWoodCellar.com

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