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TS3650 arbor problem with dado sets

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  • TS3650 arbor problem with dado sets

    I also posted this as a response on the Ask the Woodworking Experts forum. It is under a recent topic called TS3650 Problems!.

    I have had my TS3650 for about 5 weeks now, and love it - except for one thing: DADO problem.

    I agree 100% with Strong330 about the arbor problem. There is definitely a "recess" in the 5/8" arbor on mine too, about 1/8" out from the arbor flange. This recess is about 1/8" wide. The threaded portion of the arbor is a true 5/8" diameter, as is the 1/8" shoulder next to the arbor flange. This design has no effect on a single 10" saw blade, which sits on that 1/8" shoulder, but it sure affects the use of a stacked dado set. Any blade or chipper that lies over the recessed area will not line up true with the rest of the dado blades.

    This amazed me, so I also called RIDGID support. They were immediately familiar with the problem, and said that the design was "inherited from Emerson", but that there was no plan in the works to change it. RIDGID suggests the use of a wobble dado set, or an adjustable set, like Freud makes. But a stackable dado set will not work right. To compound the issue, several on this forum have advised against the use of wobble dado sets.

    To me, this is a major problem, as building bookshelves was a major reason that I purchased the saw. I had planned to make 3/4" dados on my saw. I realize I can make these with my router, but COME ON RIDGID! This is a major problem and oversight, and should be fixed.

    I'm surprised by the number of people that say they have had no problems in using a stacked dado set. I even read a thread that indicated this design problem even existed on the TS2412. RIDGID must be changing designs back and forth.

    I am open to any suggestions or information from anyone who knows about this issue. Bob Dueker, if you are out there, HELP!
    There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.

  • #2
    An 8th of an inch? I have a stacked dado set and there is about a 16th of an inch divot in the dados i cut but I though that was just because I bought a $100 set and not a $200 set.
    However it really isn't noticeable once you sand and glue the middle support of the shelving unit and top and bottom.
    On large pieces like a 6 foot unit I use the table saw but i don't really like to. I prefer to use the router table for smaller pieces; it is far more accurate and easy to set up.
    Anyway, I have noticed the issue but I am not sure why it is such a big problem with you. Especially in shelving that is going to get banded?? I am only guessing…
    If you want fine fine woodworking, a table saw is not the best choice in my opinion, at least if I was that concerned, that’s what I would do. Since I have made a few shelving units
    Now and it hasn’t been a problem, I can’t empathize with ya – sorry.
    Mick Chambers<br />Keller TX<br />


    • #3
      Thanks, Mick. Actually, I have not measured the recess, but will do so tonight. Here is what the other gentleman (Strong330) wrote in the other forum:

      I just purchased the TS3650 after reading it's decent review in the latest edition of Fine Woodworking. I'm surprised they did not mention the problem that I discovered (unless I'm missing something!!) After stacking 2 dado blades (the two outers in the set for a 1/4" cut) I noticed that one blade cut about 1/16" deeper than the other. I noticed that if a single blade is used, it sits on a "shoulder" on the arbor. It fits very snug there. The other blade sits between the shoulder and the threads in a "dead zone" that has a different diameter than the shoulder making the blade spin off center-and deeper.
      I agree with you that anything over 1/4" wide, such as 3/4" dados for bookshelves may hardly be affected. Depending on where one or two of the chippers line up on the recess, there would be some divot in the bottom of the groove, but that should not affect cosmetics or squareness. It is the smaller, 1/4" dado that I am curious about. I will set up tonight and do some testing on this.

      [ 12-01-2004, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Sawdust Steve ]
      There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.


      • #4
        Correct me if I am wrong guys but I think the mandrel on the 3650 is too short for the SD608 and I dont see how it would solve the problem anyway as the SD608 still has individual chippers that will sit in the shallow spot. A wobble would not be effected by the shallow spot but they make 'V' shaped dados anyway


        • #5
          Maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't you use a "spacer" to shift the blades over and it would only be a problem if you needed the full stack?...


          • #6
            Thanks for the reply, TGway. You really want any blade to be butted up against the arbor flange. On my saw, the runout on the arbor is virtually 0". Any "spacer" would have to be milled to the same tolerances, or it would induce runout or wobble.

            As I mentioned, I think the saw will work out ok, and yes, wbrooks, you are correct. The SD608 Freud does not fit the TS3650, but it is a stacked set as well, anyway. The only configuration that concerns me on paper involves something like a 1/4" dado made up of two outside 1/8" cutters. I don't know how well that second cutter (away from the arbor flange) will fit.

            On larger dados, I have less concern, because most of the blades/chippers will be on the 5/8" diameter shoulder or the 5/8" diameter threads. Only the chipper that lies on the recess will probably be off-center, and that will serve to place a small divot on the bottom of the dado. But the overall integrity and the squareness of the dado cut should be fine.

            It appears the Strong330, who started the thread on Ask the Woodworking Experts is a bit more upset at the whole matter:
            The service guys said all their arbors are the same-messed up ones. I'm a quality engineer for a large company. When we get a customer complaint, we jump through hoops to remidy the situation, no matter what!! Call the machine shop, change the print!! FIX THE PROBLEM!! I'm writing to Fine Woodworking Mag, (where I heard about this) and slamming Rigid. I am going to bring it back to Home Depot, partly assembled, enough to lighten the load, missing the box (already threw it out!), fence and leafs in a pile. What a dissapointment. I'm done with Rigid. The main reason I bought this saw was for dados.
            As always, thanks for everyone's input. For me, the good far outweighs the bad. The mandrell is a little quirky, but I can work with this.
            There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.


            • #7
              I tried this out last night and I have the same problem. I have a freud sd300 stack set ant the first 1/8 chipper puts a higher grove in the bottom of the dado Cut. The Arbor has the same low point as described. The Real Problem is on 1/4 cuts.

              On option is to cut shallow and get those beairng guided Dado cleanout bits that Mlcs or whiteside makes.

              I can work aroung this.

              Until...... What do we do about Box joints or cutting Tenons? Solution please?


              • #8
                A similar thread to this one is getting a lot of play in the Ask the Woodworking Experts forum. The Topic is called TS3650 Problems.

                [ 12-03-2004, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: Sawdust Steve ]
                There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.


                • #9
                  Guys, this is unsafe and should be taken care of. Get on the phone with Ridgid directly if you have to and get the problems resolved. Don't just live with it or take the word of a repair man. He probably doesn't want to deal with you. Make it an issue that needs to be addressed.


                  • #10
                    All this talk has prompted me to go out to my shop to check my saw. I was using my Freud SD208 just tonight so I had to check.
                    There is indeed a low spot in the arbor, but it has a worst case runout of .008". And who knows, I might get it centered. Even at that it would only be an issue if I wanted to run 3/16 dados (2 blades and 1/16 chipper). I think I can live with it.
                    Anyone want to buy a slightly used wobble dado because I'm not ever going back. Even with the possibility of a 1/16" groove .008" deep it still looks better than what the wobble does.


                    • #11
                      Glad I bought a Grizzley!


                      • #12
                        Dear RIDGID Customers:

                        RIDGID is aware of the concerns of some owners of the TS3650 table saw regarding the application of a stacked dado blade set on the arbor shaft. It has been brought to our attention that a blade or chipper from a stacked dado blade set has the potential of resting in the low cut area near the inner flange. This low area may allow the chipper or blade to ride in the recessed area allowing one blade to cut slightly deeper than the other blade or chippers. In an effort to resolve this issue we are working with our engineering and manufacturing teams towards a quick resolution. Although this is not a safety related issue, we expect to have a resolution in a short amount of time that will be posted on our website.


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the post. In all honesty, my 3612 has threads almost up to the arbor, and there is no gap or low spot. All is perfect in the world of mike3206 table saw.


                          • #14
                            I do not agree with the non safety issue. What is the problem,you need to thread the arbor fully not with a groove. You do not need to research that,just retool. Explain to me how an undersized arbor is not a safety issue. Dado cuts are much more demanding and if the blade is off center ,as on my saw 0.60" not 0.625" arbor dia. as is should be, it is off center of rotation,causing vibration,blade tip stress,a poor cut, excessive bearing loads, that will lead to more runout over time, and yes the more vibration the more possibility of getting hurt/slipping, blades becoming loose ,let alone more work to do the job. Your saw can not have the guard on during dado cuts,so it is inherently more dangerous even under ideal conditions. I contributed the poor cut last year,when I first used the saw, to Harbor Freight's dado set so I bought a Freud and of course, now I learn it is the arbor not the blade. I do not cut dados much, but this should be a possibility with this saw(except you designed the arbor so short that you are limited in what type of blade you can use). I also now have a useless dado plate that I bought since I do not have the saw.
                            I am also sorry I have bought the BS1400 which I spent hours adjusting,you can see the previous posts, (could not even open the door all the way to change blades,only one of many problems)I like my jp610 but it has had a defective fence to start out and a motor bearing went bad soon after use . That was when Jake was there and he was great. To your credit,Jake, sent replacement parts and it works fine, for now. The EB4424 also need minor adjustments(belt took off for the table when I first started it),the least of the tools. Why should I have to do all these repairs to these tools? I have a DeWalt RAS (1980's)that I have never fixed and most other tools I have I do not have problems with. I have a BT3000, which can be problematic, that has no problems. Thankfully I did not buy any of your cordless tools.
                            I am only a part time woodworker and take pride in maintaining my tools. They do not get much use and no abuse. Because of all the problems with Ridgid, I bought a DeWalt CMS and a Makita SCMS,DeWalt,Makita,Milwaulkee corded and cordless.(no problems)
                            The arbor is not a cosmetic issue such as "orange color". I have posted that the defects of tilted motor mount bracket,leg flex(was told that I would be contacted on fix ,saw bought 10/04 and no response),hardware is of poor quality and lead to some breakage,a bent motor cooling fan with long set screw causing vibration,and now this. It is the final time I will deal with the ts3650 saw. HD did give me store credit,but now I am forced to have to spend more money elsewhere, and have this credit which I can not use for another saw that I need. Epoxy on an arbor is not safe and durable.
                            You have lost a customer and I will not buy anything again unless there are major changes in the way your Co. does business. It is a shame because these problems could all have been avoided if the quality control was better. The saw can work well but I can not understand how you sell products like this IF you claim to be a professional line". These are not professional tools except maybe the jp610. I really like that tool.
                            I do commend you for the open forum but it does not change my opinion.


                            • #15
                              Andrew, I noticed the other day that my local HD has the Delta contractor style table saw for sale on their floor, maybe yours does too and you could put your store credit towards the Delta if you like it.