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New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

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  • #16
    Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

    If it starts slowly and comes up to speed it is most probably the centrifugal switch or capacitor or the wiring for them.

    If the motor does not spin, excessive current in the run windings trying to get it spinning will cause the breaker to pop. Its like binding a board while cutting it, current draw goes up to pop the breaker

    If the motor is spinning slightly, due to mechanical persuasion, it will start slowly, Listen for a click as it comes up to speed. That is the centrifugal switch mechanically opening to disconnect the starter capacitor and start winding.

    I think that something is keeping the capacitor/start winding from being connected, Dirty contact in centrifugal switch, broken/missing wire, bad wiring connection, malfunctioning centrifugal switch.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

      Originally posted by billmoy View Post
      I would suspect that the centrifugal switch is open or has dirt in the contacts. This will disconnect the starting capacitor and the motor will hum but not turn. The capacitor causes a phase shift into the start winding to start the armature rotating. After the motor is rotating sufficiently, the centrifugal switch opens and disconnects the capacitor and start winding, their job is completed. The motor runs on the main windings.

      Remove the belt guard and take the belt off of the motor so the blade cannot spin. Facing the pulley, wind a piece of strong cord around the motor pulley in a clockwise direction, about 10 turns should do it. Pull the cord to spin the motor shaft and when the cord is all off of the pulley AND THE MOTOR IS TURNING quickly turn on the power to the motor. If it starts up, the centrifugal switch and start up capacitor should be checked out.

      CAUTION, CAUTION

      MAKE SURE ALL OF THE CORD IS OFF OF THE PULLEY BEFORE STARTING THE MOTOR BECAUSE IF THE MOTOR STARTS IT WILL WIND UP THE CORD AND YOUR HAND. Practice a few times with the cord without powering up the motor.
      This is something where having a good adult helper can really help you. Right as soon as the cord flies off the motor pulley is when the power to the motor needs to be turned on. You want to be sure to manually spin the motor in the same direction it needs to run for the saw to work.

      This may seem crazy, but with the motor powered and starting slow, try a few pretty good but not too hard raps on the end of the motor opposite the shaft using a rubber mallet. That can free up a sticky starting switch. You want to be quick and tap it a few times when the motor is attempting to start. It's a bit of a crazy fix but sometimes it can work. Don't hit the motor with a wood block or anything metal as that will dent it. Then any warranty is void because of damages.

      My gut says either something isn't wired just right or the starting capacitor is bum.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

        I like KILLAVOLT's idea of using an AC Ammeter and taking some readings. You'll want either a clamp-on type or if you rig up a panel meter use one with a 0-50 Amp range. Starting current will damage a 0-20 or 0-25 Amp panel meter. With a clamp-on you'll want to start out with a range about 0-100 Amps and change it as needed. If you don't have such, ask around as electricians and handy man types normally have one. A simple one doesn't cost all that much and they are valuable to have.

        I think this motor is about a 1-1/2 HP 3450 RPM very basic power tool motor. Checking some specs the running current should be in the range of 10 - 13 Amps depending on load running on 120 Volts and 1/2 that on 240 Volts.

        This is for everyone: If you go to this site and in the box type in the kind of Ridgid item you have (not the model number) you can find manuals and parts list for many items.
        http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Literature-Search

        Try to check this drawing showing wiring for 120 Volts and note colors and wire nuts. Maybe have someone else review it too. I downloaded the manual and printed the one page with wiring diagrams. Then I scanned this part and posted it here. I left out the 240 Volt drawing to help reduce confusion.
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Woussko; 03-18-2009, 06:57 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

          Try to check this drawing showing wiring for 120 Volts and note colors and wire nuts. Maybe have someone else review it too. I downloaded the manual and printed the one page with wiring diagrams. Then I scanned this part and posted it here. I left out the 240 Volt drawing to help reduce confusion.
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

            Thanks again everyone for the ideas and feedback. Great group of folks here.

            I've checked the wiring against the manual, and it is correctly wired for 120 v.

            I just checked the capacitors (there were two) and they were hooked up, and neither one was obviously defective. (When I was building guitar amps, a bad capacitor was pretty obvious because it was all blackened and melted -- these may be less obviously defective.)

            If its a sticky switch inside, I would think a long term solution would require replacement, no?

            Hopefully Ridgid will get back to me soon, and I'll report here.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

              I forgot to add earlier, I don't have an ammeter that can handle that testing, though I may ask around to see if anyone I know does.

              Let me ask this: why does the exact number of amps that the motor is drawing matter for troubleshooting purposes? We know it's more than the 20 amp circuit breaker that's getting tripped, right?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                Originally posted by MDunne View Post
                I forgot to add earlier, I don't have an ammeter that can handle that testing, though I may ask around to see if anyone I know does.

                Let me ask this: why does the exact number of amps that the motor is drawing matter for troubleshooting purposes? We know it's more than the 20 amp circuit breaker that's getting tripped, right?
                Right you are but it would be useful to know what the starting amperage is to eliminate say, a short. It's all moot anyway since Ridgid will make a decision on what to replace since it's under warranty.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                  Here’s an update on the saga:

                  Ridgid said to bring the saw into a service center. I called the local service center and they seemed friendly and accommodating. They said I could bring in just the motor, and it would take about a week to order a new one.

                  I’m wondering if I can exchange just the motor at home depot – that would be quicker turn-around, but I’m not sure they’d open up a box.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                    If you can find a Home Depot that has the same model table saw on display you might be able to talk the department manager into a motor swap with that saw. As for doing it with one in the box, I seriously doubt they would allow such. The capacitors in electric motors normally are encased in hard black plastic cans so you really can't see much. You might get lucky with the service center if they happen to have both capacitors in stock it only takes a few minutes to switch them. A ground out (winding shorted to ground/case) test is easy with the proper equipment and again goes quick. This will really depend on the service center. I think we are all pretty sure it is a motor fault so that should be all you need to take.

                    Question: Do you personally know anyone that's an electrician? If yes, he/she might have test instruments and could do a few quick checks to determine what's wrong.

                    As per Killavolt, it would be nice to have some ruff idea of the starting current draw.

                    It's interesting to me that your motor has two capacitors. One is for starting and one for running. This boosts efficiency.

                    I wish we had a way to know just what is wrong. If it's just a bad starting capacitor they don't cost much and are easy to replace. It might actually be better on you to just get one and swap it, but only if that is really what is wrong. I'm thinking of the old P I T A factor of having to remove the motor, take it in for service, get it and reinstall it, over leaving it in place, spending less than $10 for a starting capacitor, having the satisfaction of DIY repair and getting your saw up and running quick. Then again, there's no use in buying anything unless you're sure of what really is the problem.

                    Maybe it's time I hush up and go have another nice bowl of my famous HUSH HOUND.

                    Woussko = Hound dog that loves to howl, howl and howl.

                    Please keep everyone updated and good luck with this. It has to be a real pain wanting to use the saw when you just can't. In time you'll get it working and have many happy hours of creative woodworking.
                    Last edited by Woussko; 03-20-2009, 05:31 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                      Success! Thanks for everyone's help.

                      The good news is that Home Depot was very accomodating in exchanging the motor for a new one, out of the box. I took it home, hooked it up, and the thing works like a champ. Unfortunately, we have family in town so I won't get to really use the thing for a while. Still, it's awesome to know it's working.

                      The bad news is that we'll never know exactly what was wrong with the old one!

                      One interesting footnote. When I bought the saw originally, the box was open, and duct-taped closed. The HD employee assured me that had happened when they moved the box around, and the thing had never been used or returned.

                      When they exchanged the motor today, they switched it out with the new one in the box, and put the old defective motor back in place in the box. They said they would return it to Ridgid.

                      I could imagine that even if they intend to return the saw, it could get mixed up, and put back in stock.

                      I can't help but wonder if the saw I bought had a motor that had already been returned by someone else. Hmmm.
                      Last edited by MDunne; 03-21-2009, 11:05 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                        I'm glad they exchanged your motor for you and as far as the motor you got, it could well have been a switched one. I'm sure with smaller power tools some returns that are defective end up back on the shelf where everything looks to be new. After you have a chance to use the table saw please let us all know how it works for you.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                          Originally posted by MDunne View Post
                          Success! Thanks for everyone's help.

                          The good news is that Home Depot was very accomodating in exchanging the motor for a new one, out of the box. I took it home, hooked it up, and the thing works like a champ. Unfortunately, we have family in town so I won't get to really use the thing for a while. Still, it's awesome to know it's working.

                          The bad news is that we'll never know exactly what was wrong with the old one!

                          One interesting footnote. When I bought the saw originally, the box was open, and duct-taped closed. The HD employee assured me that had happened when they moved the box around, and the thing had never been used or returned.

                          When they exchanged the motor today, they switched it out with the new one in the box, and put the old defective motor back in place in the box. They said they would return it to Ridgid.

                          I could imagine that even if they intend to return the saw, it could get mixed up, and put back in stock.

                          I can't help but wonder if the saw I bought had a motor that had already been returned by someone else. Hmmm.
                          A Likely scenario, and exactly why stores do not normally like to swap out piece parts in situations like this. The bad motor keeps coming back and transfered from one box to another. For them to get it back to RIDGID means the whole TS has to come off the floor and is not available for sale. In the case such as you currently have with the last of the 3650 & 3660s being sold, there is little chance of them getting a replacement, so they will loose the chance to make a sale on that one saw.
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                          • #28
                            Re: New TS3650 trips breaker, motor problem?

                            I know that this is an old thread, but there is a little bit of info you need to know. At any Home Depot, any Ridgid tool is a direct credit to HD, from Ridgid, if defective, no questions asked. There is absolutely no reason to leave a defective product on the floor to be resold. All HD's have an employee that's his or her only job is to track and do the paperwork on returned products from where ever. When a product is returned as defective it goes into a separate area that is secure and only two people have a key to it. Only certain employees can authorize a return and do the paper work, usually an ASM or department head. There is a special software program that is set up for returns and only a select few can access it. If, in fact this tool did make it back on the floor to be resold, someone could and probably did loose a job over this. There are just way too many internal controls on returns, it's tracked from the minute it hits the door until it either goes out or is accounted for.

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