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R4511 Fence Alignment

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  • #16
    Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

    Anyone have a source for 2" square tubing? I am wondering if the joint in the rail is part of my fence problems. The plastic joint is not as precise as I would have liked. I would like to replace the front and rear rails with solid pieces.
    Last edited by Millipede; 06-24-2009, 05:21 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

      Originally posted by Millipede View Post
      Anyone have a source for 2" square tubing? I am wondering if the joint in the rail is part of my fence problems. The plastic joint is not as precise as I would have liked. I would like to replace the front and rear rais with solid pieces.
      http://www.allmetalsinc.com/steelsqu...200200125.html

      Warning though, shipping kinda stinks.

      I made upgraded rails for my 4511....got the steel angles from a local steel supply place and the tube I got from someone I know in an awning shop.

      I found the 2 piece-ness of the stock rails didnt really matter unless you were making rips closer to the blade than the miter slot. I upgraded the rails mostly for extra rip capacity, even though I just ended up replacing the whole mess with an Incra TS setup

      As far as the fence alignment itself, it took me a bit but I was able to get it to slide nicely (without binding front to back) and be parallel with the miter slot. Took a lot of trial and error but I did eventually get it.

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      • #18
        Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

        Purp,
        BuckB's on the right track and mine at least had the same issue of the pads contacting at same time.
        On mine it was throwing off a little bit left because my right pad top is skewed a little so it doesn't contact flush like the left one does. So if the screw depth were set the same on both the right pad would hit first and skew the fence left a tad. Once I backed it off to contact when the left one does, voila no jump and locks in tight.
        On another post I said the top third contacts first but looking at it again, its really the top half that contacts. The steel leaf spring behind the pad must have been installed a little off, cause the left one is perfectly flush.

        I had read your issues before on the fence and am sorry I did not check mine closer to see why my screw settings were different depths. Guess I was happy it was adjusted. Hope this helps if any of you have pads that contact differently. Once I got it set I loctited those threads and it hasn't moved and is accurate on repeats, which is what you want.

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        • #19
          Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

          PROBLEM FIXED !!!!!

          Thanks Cato for the food for thought and the suggestion to take a look at the fence pads (the actual pads that tough the rail).

          I found that indeed, my left pad is skewed, and it's top part touches the fence before it's bottom part does - what this caused was for the fence to be partially locked when the top part get pressed against the rail, but then if I pushed the locking handle more - it'll "bend" the pad flush with the rail, and allow the fence to skew sideways (just a bit). so in essence - different locking pressure would position the fence at a different angle to the blade (ever so slightly but enough to throw the measurement off).

          I took some pliers, and forced the metal wing that holds the left pad parallel to the fence itself (making the pad parallel to the fence - just like the right pad is). this of course pulled the metal wing away from the fence (as if being pushed by the plastic set screw) - so I had to push it back into the fence (as to not lock on the fence unldess being pushed by the set screw).

          I realigned the fence to the blade. locked it- and VOILA! the fence STAYED IN PLACE for the entire locking procedure, regardless of how much I lower the locking handle, the fence stays put on the mark - FANTASTIC (obviously I was excited to see this).

          now there's absolutely nothing to complain about this saw just the way I like it.

          Thanks for everyone on the thread that streamed ideas, I was about to call it quits and buy a 3rd party fence, luckily, this will not be required for some time now.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

            PurpLev,
            You're welcome, and I'm so glad to have been of some help in this. Now that you have lifted that frustrating cloud off your back you can really enjoy the saw.

            Forums can be great for putting a different set of eyes on a problem.

            Really without your blog on assembly, and BuckB and Chris's to name a few on adjustments, I would have had a much much harder time assembling and fine tuning mine. So turn about is fair play!!

            You know we really got a killer deal on our saws when HD ran that special.
            The portable contractor units run as much or more than we paid for ours.

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            • #21
              Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

              I am seriously going to my saw right now to try this....

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              • #22
                Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                Well, i tried it...on two different fences. Still no luck. I have no idea what the problem is. I hate to return the whole saw. What a pain.

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                • #23
                  Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                  millipede - I'm not sure what your fence problem is - but you should check this out. worth the minute it takes.

                  as far as the tube and plastic coupling - I found that it doesnt really throw the fence position off - but if not aligned perfectly it'll make the fence lock differently on each tube - if the fence is located between the tubes...

                  one thing you can check is - place your fence so that it ONLY sits on 1 (right) tube, and lock it down - if it locks well, and moves smoothly - your problem is NOT the fence - but indeed the tube coupling , if you still experience movements, then it's the fence itself and not the plastic coupling.

                  let us know how it works for you - hopefully we can cross out another finicky fence, and add another satisfied user.

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                  • #24
                    Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                    I have been fiddling with that stupid fence for hours it seems. But no matter what I do, it always pulls to the right as I tighten it down. I am hesitant to do any furniture making because it might throw my sizes off enough to make unsightly gaps.
                    I have tird getting the plastic tabs to hit at the same time and bend them so that the whole tabe hits flat. It just is not working for me.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                      Originally posted by Millipede View Post
                      I have been fiddling with that stupid fence for hours it seems. But no matter what I do, it always pulls to the right as I tighten it down. I am hesitant to do any furniture making because it might throw my sizes off enough to make unsightly gaps.
                      I have tird getting the plastic tabs to hit at the same time and bend them so that the whole tabe hits flat. It just is not working for me.
                      Is the clamp portion (the thin black metal "tab" under the handle) parallel to the tube? Or how about the cam that pushes on the tab? If that whole mess is crooked I could see how it might fudge the fence as you tighten it down.

                      Are the fence tubes parallel to the table?

                      After a little trial and error I was able to get the fence to clamp down correctly. The biggest key was mucking with the allen screws (and it helps to do it using the access holes in the front fence hanging bracket vs taking the fence on and off between adjustments)

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                      • #26
                        Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                        well the fact that all the angles on the tubing and angle irons are soft, it is hard to get a good measurement on the alignment of the fence guide rails. That said, they could be off by 1mm over the half lengths of the rails. I actually loosened the tab the cam rides on so it should align to the guide rail assuming of course that the cam itself is where it is supposed to be.
                        I have two stock fences and both are behaving the same way, I am totally clueless as to why. I wish the lock was on the back side of the guide tube and the adjustments on the front. I know I have seen a fence like that in the past...Steel City fence maybe?
                        I am getting very very frustrated. I do NOT want to take a 500 pound saw back to the store or the service center.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                          I hate my fence. I have tried it all with two fences and not matter what I do, the fence moves 1/16" to the right when I tighten it up. I cannot understand what causes it. It is driving me nuts. I think I just got two badly welded up fences that will not align.
                          If I have to go out and buy a new fence, I may as well return the saw and just get another brand of saw with a better thought out fence..
                          It should not take weeks to get a fence to line up correctly.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                            Fence issues are frustrating, so I hope this will help.

                            If your fence is moving 1/16 to the right when you tighten down, then you should look at the adjustable gray pads behind the tube when it is locked down. Several of us have had one of the pads skewed a little which made them not quite parallel so one would contact ahead of the other and cause the movement you describe.

                            PurpLev used plier to bend his left pad to parallel. My right pad was skewed slightly so that the top half of it was hitting slightly before the left and causing a 1/16 movement to the left. I backed it off until it got contact the same time as the left and fence locked perfectly square and rock solid. I loctited the screws and it has been perfect ever since.

                            I don't know about the locking cam and that stuff. but on the T square design the whole key to alignment is the pads. Too many people focus on the position of the adjustment screws in relation to each other, when really what counts is not their position but the pads position and even contact time.
                            Post a pic of your left and right pad at lockdown if this does not work and we will help you work through this. It would be rare for two fences to be bad I would think.

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                            • #29
                              Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                              Another thought. I'm sure you have probably done this, but have you gone back over the rail and tube mounting to make sure the counter sunk screws on the rail were tightened so that rail is flush with the granite and that both wings are flush in line with table top? If so then examine tube mounts.

                              Just a thought, as sometimes going back to the whole installation procedure you can find one little thing that is affecting the whole deal.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: R4511 Fence Alignment

                                Millipede,
                                I could never get this fence to happen either.
                                I know all about the bending the uneven retainer bar pad problem,
                                and also the longer set screws as they were the first things I tried to fix.
                                The retainer bar is SOFT poor qualiy and it is bent from pulling when they welded it.
                                I could get my fence reasonably good and workable. (never Rock Solid)
                                I just cant see why they would cheap out to this degree,
                                All this so it can be shipped in one box ,How about a BIGGER BOX.
                                A 2 piece guide tube is O.K. if executed properly. (in this case NOT)

                                I have just built my new rails and fence and now we are cooking with gas.
                                I used 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 x 1/4inch angle for the front
                                and 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 x 3/16 angle for the back.
                                The only things that are original are the windows
                                and the Cam welded to a new handle.
                                The Guide Tube is 11 gauge x 80" and the Fence is 14 gauge x 40".
                                All good Quality Steel...
                                I borrowed from the Steel City Industrial 2 fence and its an excellent design.
                                No Racking when adjusting And No movement when locking.
                                I can now cut up to 50" and it is a joy to use.
                                I am preparing it for powder coating later this week.
                                Another problem you may be having is that your angle iron is just bent flat stock
                                and it can flex when you apply pressure.
                                I'm sure some of you guys have got it right, and you may have had better luck with the parts supplied with your saw.
                                Mine all the welds were a total mess, and also when I see a saw like this I would expect that the back rail not to look like it came off a baby's crib. (PLEASE)
                                When its done being powder coated I will post pics.
                                BTW, if you think I went overboard look at the Delta T2 system
                                it uses the same gauge angle Iron and tube.
                                I did juice up the guide rail from 14 to 11gauge though.
                                (insert Tim Tool man Grunt Here)
                                I admit all this was a bit of a PITA, building it in an no AC
                                Aircraft hanger in Florida during the summer.
                                But the result came out far better then I would have thought.
                                BTW,Anyone looking for an after market fence should check out
                                Steel City's Industrial 2.
                                It kinda makes the Bies look silly...

                                Other then these issues I love the saw.
                                Maybe a 3hp motor....somebody stop me...
                                All you young dudes have fun...D...

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