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Blade dilemma

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  • Blade dilemma

    Guys, I have a 3660, and am considering changing the blade. Now I have three choices:

    1. Put in something like a Freud Diablo 40T combo blade for $40 or so. Is it that much better than the stock blade (which doesnt seem all that great)?

    2. Spend a little more, and get say a 24T rip blade and 60T finish blade? This would run to maybe $80.

    3. Save my pennies, think that Diablos arent that much better and get a WW2 for $110 or so?


    Plenty of comments on here already about the blades in isolation, but it's really a recommendation of which option is the most cost effective that I'm looking for. Money not spent on tools can be spent on wood, and produce something instead of keep outfitting the shop.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Blade dilemma

    The best of both worlds would be to have a dedicated 24T or 30T rip blade and a good 60T-80T finish crosscut blade. As that would run into some serious $$ and alternative would be a 40T general purpose blade or a 50T combination blade. Either of those choices would give you acceptable results in most cases but certainly not as good as you would get if you went the dedicated blade route.
    Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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    • #3
      Re: Blade dilemma

      If you're on a budget then a 50T combination is an excellent choice.
      I use one from Ridgid and it works very well. Unless you're building furniture for the Smithsonian, or do a huge amount of ripping cuts you'll be happy with both crosscuts and rips. I haven't used a 50T from Frued yet, but I am about to buy one, it's about $30 here. I likely will use a blade stabilizer for that one though, due to its thinner kerf.

      Lat year I also used an 8" 40T Finish Freud and I also liked the results.

      See the results my sample cross/rip cuts here. These were done withe the Ridgid 50T cobmo. I did not have a jointer at the time.
      In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

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      • #4
        Re: Blade dilemma

        I keep seeing the recommendation of the WWII 30T TK for use a single blade.

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        • #5
          Re: Blade dilemma

          I have the Forrest WWII thin kerf. It is an awesome blade! The carbide is thick, and it leaves a very nice edge. It is expensive, but for the hobbiest woodworker it should last forever as it can be resharpened many times. My thought was to buy a very good blade once instead of buying cheaper blades over and over again. I have also had good luck with Hitachi blades, which are much cheaper. I have 2 of the 72 tooth blades - one on my miter saw and another for very rare times I need a cut finer than the Forrest can produce. I also have a Hitachi 40 tooth blade that I use for woods like pine and MDF. It was only $15.00 at Amazon and cuts great.

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          • #6
            Re: Blade dilemma

            I bought the WWII based on the good reviews it gets and I am very happy with it. I leave that blade on my saw as a general purpose blade and have since added a Freud glue line rip blade (and dado blade of course). I got the glue line rip blade because I make lots of cutting boards and needed a nice edge on the wood being ripped. The WWII was decent but for a dedicated situation like this the glue line rip blade does a better job.

            I dont mind spending the extra cash for the WWII since I know I will have it for a long time. Evetually I will add a dedicated crosscut blade, even though the WWII can handle most anything I need sometimes a dedicated blade just works a little better. And if I ever have to cut junk-type wood I use the OEM blade. Everything has its purpose.

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            • #7
              Re: Blade dilemma

              Thanks guys. So the consensus seems to be save pennies and buy a WW2.

              I have to say the Diablo is appealing on cost basis, but the point about buying right the first time instead of many junk blades is not lost on me.

              The one thing in the back of mind is that the Diablos seem to get reasonable reviews (say 4 out of 5), whereas the WW2 gets a 5 every time. The difference in cost though means I could get three different Diablos for one WW2.

              But then I'm not sure I would be motivated to change the blade twice a night. I'm only a hobbyist, and a novice at that. That said, I havent trusted myself with "good" wood yet, and am still pleased as punch with the results on crappy sheathing plywood (or one grade better) and 2x4s using the stock blade, but I can see that mistake are better made with cheap wood.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Blade dilemma

                Funny you mention this. I also have a 3660 and recently bought a diablo 24 tooth rip blade and a diablo 60 tooth crosscut blade. I am quite happy with the results. I don't mind changing out the blades as it only takes a couple minutes. Very smooth rip cuts with the 24 tooth and so far zero tearout with the crosscut 60 tooth blade. They can be resharpened up to 6 times which is plenty of cutting if you ask me. I use the stock multipurpose blade for cutting dirty wood or wood that potentially could damage the blade.

                I have never owned a forrest ww2 blade and have no doubt they are better quality. If I ever go to a better quality blade, I will stick with the 2 blade theory as I believe the multipurpose blades don't do either job at the quality level I desire.

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                • #9
                  Re: Blade dilemma

                  The Freud LU86R010 Industrial, Freud Avanti TK306, and Diablo D1040X are very similar. The LU86 has more carbide. All are noticeably better than your stock blade. Even though none are quite to the level of the 40T WWII, they're not all that far behind either. I think the relative average scores you mentioned are a good comparative description...roughly 4 stars for the lower priced 40T Freuds (maybe 4.5), and roughly 5 stars for the WWII (and other premium choices). As a comparison, the stock blade is more like 2-stars.

                  If all else is equal, more teeth means a cleaner cut, but cleaner cut doesn't come without a downside, and cleaner doesn't always equate to "better". It really depends on what you're doing and what you want to achieve. More teeth pose higher resistance to the saw (slower feedrate, more bogging), and more chance of burning to occur, so you're more limited with the thickness of the material with 80T than with 40T. Fewer teeth tends to mean rougher cut but easier feedrate less bogging, but often poorer crosscut performance. The 40T to 50T range is a good compromise for good ripping efficiency and acceptable crosscuts...they're good at many things, but excellent at none. They're limitations tend to come in the extreme ranges of thick ripping and ultra fine crosscuts, where a 24T-30T ripper and a 60T to 80T crosscut blade each excel respectively.

                  I like the convenience of running more versatile general purpose blades, but prefer the performance benefits of the dedicated blades....so my solution is to combine a good 30T blade (like the WWII 30T), with a good 60T blade like an Infinity 010-060, Freud LU88R010 (or substitute the TK406, Ridgid 1060, or Diablo 1060) , or Forrest WWI. The 010-060 and WWI are both Hi-ATB and have outstanding ply and crosscuts. The 30T/60T scenario provides the versatility to leave either blade on for general purpose work, but offers very good to excellent capability with thick ripping and fine crosscuts when needed. If you don't cut much thick material, but do cut a lot of ply or want finer crosscuts, you may find that a good 60T blade will do the trick. If you cut some thick materials but not much ply, you may find that the 30T WWII will do nicely. The 30T WWII is surprisingly good....nearly as clean cutting as the 40T (almost indistinguishable) but rips notably more efficiently....ultra fine crosscuts is it's weakness, but you find that it crosscuts acceptably well in many situations.

                  There are alternatives to the WWII 40T that are as good. The Ridge Carbide TS2000 is actually made a few miles from the Forrest factory, and was started by former Forrest employees. The TS2000 comes in both thin and full kerf (your saw will benefit from the TK), and is available for ~ $80 shipped from Holbren.com with woodnet10, SMC10, or BT310 discount codes. The 50T Infinity 010-150 is an extremely capable 50T combo blade if you decide that's the type of blade that's best for you. It's available for ~ $60-$70 from Infinitytools.com.

                  The DeWalt Precision Trim series is a very good thin kerf series that's a great bargain when on sale...CPODewalt.com has some good values on that series. Roughly comparable to the lower priced Freuds.

                  Remember that the blade is an important component, but so is the saw's alignment, saw's runout/vibration levels, and a good insert are important too...it has to be flush and it has to be rigid (flexing causes bad cuts).
                  Last edited by hewood; 05-20-2009, 08:39 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Blade dilemma

                    Hewood,

                    My eternal thanks. That is an OUTSTANDING reply to the question I asked. It helps me enormously.

                    My plan now then is to do 2x Diablos, a 30T (24 maybe?), and a 60T. As and when time, budget, results, and the wife all allow, I will replace them with "better" quality ones, though I realize that is a subjective statement in itself.

                    Your comment about "leave either on for general purpose work" answers my concern about changing the blades, and my commitment to do so. No real need to change the 60T to trim down a 12x30 piece of scrap ply into 10x24 for a shelf, for example.

                    Thanks to all who contributed to the thread.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Blade dilemma

                      Hmmm, Id say there are about as many choice's as there are opinions.
                      cost wise Dewalt puts out a good combo package with a good
                      set that comes with 32 and 80 tooth blades.
                      When it comes to blades, I wont bat an eye at getting the best one I think will produce the best results.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Blade dilemma

                        I wholeheartedly recommend a Ridge Carbide TS2000. I now Hewood mentioned it, but you've never heard of it? http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...t.aspx?id=5621

                        *Excellent* cross cut and finish cut blade. Gluing edge quality cuts.
                        Darn skippy for ripping as well as long as you're realistic. I put in a WWII 30T for 1.5" or thicker hardwoods (e.g. oak, walnut). Otherwise, the Ridge is my full time blade, including for sheet goods.

                        They're generally around $90 via several sources,
                        http://www.woodpeck.com/ts2000blade.html
                        http://www.holbren.com/product.php?p...9&cat=0&page=1
                        As Hewood mentioned, Holbren will give a discount for members of certain forums.
                        Last edited by Wood_Junkie; 05-20-2009, 09:37 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Blade dilemma

                          Originally posted by Wood_Junkie View Post
                          I wholeheartedly recommend a Ridge Carbide TS2000. I now Hewood mentioned it, but you've never heard of it? http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...t.aspx?id=5621

                          Yes I had heard of it, and had (erroneously, it seems) equated the Ridge Tool Company (ie RIDGID) with the Ridge Carbide Company.

                          Let's be clear here, dollars are not the central issue. JUSTIFICATION of where to spend the dollars are an issue. If someone could say to me "buy an XYZ, I know it costs $300 (ie more than I paid for my saw!!), but it outperforms EVERYTHING by a HUGE margin", I would be all over it, no problem. But that doesnt seem to be the case. It seems to be that there's a smaller performance differential than cost differential in the case of the blades (Freud, Forrest, Ridge) under discussion.

                          When I've got a project or two under my belt in terms of experience with the TS, then I'll have learned some lessons. I'm just trying to mitigate how many of those lessons are learned the hard way!
                          Last edited by Roadster280; 05-20-2009, 09:47 PM. Reason: Spilleng

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                          • #14
                            Re: Blade dilemma

                            Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                            Hewood,

                            My eternal thanks. That is an OUTSTANDING reply to the question I asked. It helps me enormously.

                            My plan now then is to do 2x Diablos, a 30T (24 maybe?), and a 60T. As and when time, budget, results, and the wife all allow, I will replace them with "better" quality ones, though I realize that is a subjective statement in itself.

                            Your comment about "leave either on for general purpose work" answers my concern about changing the blades, and my commitment to do so. No real need to change the 60T to trim down a 12x30 piece of scrap ply into 10x24 for a shelf, for example.

                            Thanks to all who contributed to the thread.
                            You're welcome. Note that a 24T blade is a dedicated ripper that's great at that task, but will likely give unacceptable crossuts and ply cuts, etc...you'll get to be the judge though. I still think it's a good mate for a versatile 60T like the Diablo. A 30T ATB general purpose thin kerf blade like the WWII is harder to come by unfortunately....many 30T blades are triple chip rippers (TCG) that also won't crosscut well. The good news is that if you're patient, I have seen the WWII 30T for as low as $59 shipped from Amazon....even the 9" version will do well. Regular price is more like $90. If you picked up the saw for $400 as many have, you've saved enough to justify spending a little extra on the blade if you need to.

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