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R4511 Table top alignment instructions

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  • #16
    Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

    DaveWoodWork...thanks for such a prompt reply. the PDF you posted does clarify the adjustment calculation. again, it is an impressive piece of work about an aspect of saw alignment that i haven't seen addressed in any of the manuals i have perused or online "tips" and procedures i have viewed. so the actual adjustment to your 4511 was ~1/16" on the right front support and ~5/64" on the left front support? have i got that right?

    and regarding the "Further/Closer" item on line D of the worksheet, if the blade moves away from the table top, i.e., the dial indicator's pointer moves further away from the dial face, then that is indicative of "further", necessitating the use of F(iii)?

    lastly, would item E in the worksheet vary with the size of a blade (12" vs. 10") and the point of contact on the blade? smaller gullets, or finding a flat surface closer to the outer edge of the blade, would cause item E to vary from 7.5", right?

    your paper is both informative and entertaining. i haven't used that kind of geometry since i don't know when. thank you for taking the time to describe the situation so clearly and providing a worksheet so the adjustment can be stepped through by others with realtive ease.
    there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

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    • #17
      Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

      oops, duplicate post.
      there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

        Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
        ... so the actual adjustment to your 4511 was ~1/16" on the right front support and ~5/64" on the left front support?
        Correct. That is the final amount of shimming required for each side and the approximate thickness of the washers I placed.

        and regarding the "Further/Closer" item on line D of the worksheet, if the blade moves away from the table top, i.e., the dial indicator's pointer moves further away from the dial face, then that is indicative of "further", necessitating the use of F(iii)?
        Correct. If the back side of the tabletop is sloping up with regards to the tilt axis of the blade, then the back measurement will be "Further" (larger) than the front measurement.

        lastly, would item E in the worksheet vary with the size of a blade (12" vs. 10") and the point of contact on the blade? smaller gullets, or finding a flat surface closer to the outer edge of the blade, would cause item E to vary from 7.5", right?
        Correct. Whatever the distance is between your measuring points is what you would use here. For my 10 inch saw blade, the distance as measured along the tabletop between my front measuring point (bottom of a gullet) and back measuring point (bottom of the same gullet with that gullet rotated to the back) was about 7.5 inches. This is used to calculate the slope. You measure how "tilted" the tabletop is relative to the blade (change in Y axis) and you need to also know over what distance this change occured (change in X axis). Slope = Change in Y axis / Change in X axis.

        In my research, I found very few articles/posts that even mention adjusting the alignment with the blade at 45 degrees. They would just say to put in some shims and recheck until you have it right. I thought there must be a more "scientific" way to do it. This is my newbie attempt to figure that way out. I had to dust off some of my math to accomplish it. Like you said, mathematics was one of my favorite subjects in college, but I've had little call to use it. I'm glad someone else found the paper entertaining.

        Dave

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        • #19
          Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

          And nothing is right about a love triangle.

          Just wanted to help a little.

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          • #20
            Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

            here is a recent online review of the 4511 by tom begnal of fine woodworking.com.

            http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki...40&tab=_editor

            the last paragraph of the review talks about the 4511's 45* blade alignment issues. hey dave, maybe you should send him a copy of your write up. it might cut the time he has to spend "under the saw".
            there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

              DaveWoodWork, just want to thank you for a great article. I had tuned up everything else on my new R4511, but did not realize there might be an issue with the 45* setting. Never had any difficulty on my other saws. This one however, needed approximately 1/16"+ washers on the front locations. I used the formulas, but due to cabinet fluctuations, I needed to adjust the final thickness from the fomula results. I also didn't have a dial indicator, so I had to just measure the horizontal difference from front of blade to back using a steel rule and the miter gauge. This became my "t" dim. Now I just have to finish it up so I can cut wood. That's why I bought it, not to spend 2 weeks fine tuning everything the factory threw together on a friday afternoon.

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              • #22
                Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                Thanks for doing the math on this. What a difference it made for setup. Wow. Everything is dialed in within .001 now.

                Instead of using a blade I used a MasterPlate. This helped make sure I achieved consistent, accurate results.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                  Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                  Thanks for doing the math on this. What a difference it made for setup. Wow. Everything is dialed in within .001 now.

                  Instead of using a blade I used a MasterPlate. This helped make sure I achieved consistent, accurate results.
                  I have been working through this document for 2 days. No matter where I shim, I end up around .007-.009 further from the blade in the back when the blade is at 45 degrees. I have checked my math, tried adding more shims, everything. I can get the blade perfect at 90, but having trouble at 45... Anyone ever run into this issue?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                    As the R4511 is left tilt, if you are seeing that the front of the blade is too far right, you will need to add shims under the front bolts (or remove some from the rear). If you are seeing that the rear of the blade is too far right, you'll need to do the opposite (add shims under the rear bolts or remove some from the front).

                    Try using thin wooden wedges between the table and frame until you get the table adjusted as needed, then use feeler gauges to determine how thick you need to make your shim stacks.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                      Originally posted by tomapple View Post
                      As the R4511 is left tilt, if you are seeing that the front of the blade is too far right, you will need to add shims under the front bolts (or remove some from the rear). If you are seeing that the rear of the blade is too far right, you'll need to do the opposite (add shims under the rear bolts or remove some from the front).

                      Try using thin wooden wedges between the table and frame until you get the table adjusted as needed, then use feeler gauges to determine how thick you need to make your shim stacks.
                      Thanks, I was shimming in the front according to the document and using the calculations. I would get it set up at 90, set it to 45, do the calculations and they came out to be .023, and .027 is what I needed for the two front shims. So I made two shims, shimmed it up, redid all the calculations, and then it came out that I needed .025 and .026 for the two front shims. I did this 2 or three more times. No matter how many shims I added to the front I was .007-.009 further in the back of the blade. At one point the front was so high that I just quit for the night. I can get 90 dead on, but 45 is giving me trouble.

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                      • #26
                        Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                        Use wood door shims to raise/lower table as needed. When you get it right, use feeler gauges to determine the thickness of shim needed at each point. (add a few thousandths for compression).

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                          Originally posted by Bob Haskett View Post
                          I have been working through this document for 2 days. No matter where I shim, I end up around .007-.009 further from the blade in the back when the blade is at 45 degrees. I have checked my math, tried adding more shims, everything. I can get the blade perfect at 90, but having trouble at 45... Anyone ever run into this issue?
                          I haven't encountered that exact issue, but mine, which was purchased just this last month, couldn't be trued at 90. (I don't know if it was true when puchased, as I removed the top to reduce its weight for assembly). The back of mine was always further to the left by nearly 1/32". This was due to the bolts being restrained by the edges of the holes. To get it straight, I had to enlarge the holes with a file. (I called Rigid, first, and all they could think of was to add shims, which I just received. I may be wrong, but don't see how shims were going to cure the problem.) I wonder if your bolt holes are situated so as to just allow you to true the blade at 90, but prevent adjusting your saw at 45?

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                          • #28
                            Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                            Moving the trunnion would eliminate having to enlarge the holes...that is what you are aligning..the top to the trunnion.

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                            • #29
                              Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                              I didn't think the trunions were adjustable on this saw, just the top.
                              Brian

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                              • #30
                                Re: R4511 Table top alignment instructions

                                Of course the trunnion can be adjusted (moved). It is bolted to the cabinet. More than likely a big alignment problem would be due to it having moved in transit (as it would probably have been fairly close to correct when it left the factory)

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