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Black & Decker buys Pentair (porter-cable, delta) tools!

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  • #16
    I bet he was counting Black and Decker as well although 60% is hard to believe.I guess 1 cordless screwdriver counts the same as a $300 drill.


    • #17
      I see it as all bad, B&D are not good tools at all. I just purchased a PC 5" sander and really like it, there goes that quality. Wonder if this is going to stop their sponsership of The New Yankee Workshop??


      • #18
        On Woodnet the word is that P.C coordless tools may be the first to go.Smart $ says this may pull Delta out of the funk.How in the #%&* did I end up with a double pst above. I must have too may fingers working.


        • #19
          I have really been thinking about this 60% of the market qoute from the DeWalt Rep. The more I think about it the more I start to believe it. Think with me for a minute here. Go into HD and look at all cordless tools. Drills, Combo Kits, Radios, Circ Saws Impacts and so forth. Look at only Pro Brands (Milwaukee, DeWalt, Poter Cable, Makita, Ridgid, Bosch) These are the major players. In Home Depot: No Bosch or Porter Cable, a few Makita and Milwaukee and then look at Ridgid and DeWalt and they are abou one for one except the random tools like the shop vac and radio that Ridgid had. Now if all Brands sold equally in Depot then Ridgid and DeWalt should sell more. based on shear volume. Go Look in Lowes and you see a different mixture in terms of amount of each tool but here there is no ridgid and DeWalt is again one of the companies that has the most amount of cordless in the tool section. Then go into sears and they are there as well. So based on the top three tool Retailers in the nation DeWalt is the one company that is represented the most. and really HD, Lowes, and Sears really do not capture the market. The large national construction companies do not shop at the big IF they are buying DeWalt then it is possible to get 60% market share. What made me really see the clear picture is to remember that people like myself that may purchase three to four cordless tools a year really do not account for much.


          • #20
            I don't know Bo, it still is hard for me to swallow that Ridgid, B&D, Ryobi, Craftsman, Milwaukee, Panasonic, Makita, Grizzly, Harbor Freight, Bosch, Porter-Cable and all the others that I didn't mention only account for 40% of the total of all cordless tools sold. Even if DeWalt is the preferred brand of tradesman, and that is not a given, Milwaukee must also be classified as a tradesman preferred brand which would keep the DeWalt percentage in check. I own and am very pleased with my DeWalt drill/driver so I'm not bashing DeWalt at all, I just think this fella is doing nothing but spewing an awful lot of hot air.
            I decided to change calling the bathroom the "John" and renamed it the "Jim". I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.


            • #21
              Badger Dave:

              Point Taken. When I was thinking I was not considering B&D, Ryobi, Craftsman, Panasonic or Harbor Freight. In addition I would not count Skill or the Hitachi Things that are in Lowes. I was considering myself with only Professional Line tools that are for Construction Workers. Now if you added all the ones you included then I agree with you no way 60% but take those out and I still think yeah mainly because Even thought milwakuee is a great tool company I feel that more people prefer their corded tools and not their cordless. But this is just my 2 cent


              • #22
                I rarely see any pro's with Milwaukee, and even then it is always the sawzall. I see most pro's around here using dewalt, makita, and believe it or not Ryobi. Alot of ryobi. Mostly I see makita. Personally I have Milwaukee cordless tools and I would not trade them for anything.


                • #23
                  Being a statistics junkie I couldn't resist a little check on this 60% claim. Amazon ranks sales popularity of their products so I searched on cordless drills. Their sales rankings for the top selling model in each of the 6 professional lines (Bosch, Dewalt, Makita, Milwaukee, Panasonic, Porter) are:
                  Panasonic 7
                  Dewalt 57
                  Makita 132
                  Porter 263
                  Milwaukee 316
                  Bosch 1468
                  The results were surprising to me. The #7 ranking of Panasonic is astounding. I'm not sure if that means its the 7th most popular item of all Amazon products or just tools and hardware. Either way it's impressive. Porter surprised me also. I figured both Milwaukee and Bosch would have knocked them out. Bosch doesn't even look like a player at all (although users were apparently very satisfied according to the star ratings.)
                  It is true that Dewalt offers many products, but it would not be enough to account for 60% of all sales. Of the 477 matches for cordless drill, 95 were Dewalt, 105 were Makita, 143 were the other 4 listed, and the rest were non-professional. Dewalt did have 8 products with rankings < 1000, Makita and PC had 4, Panasonic and Milwaukee had 3, and Bosch none.
                  Based on Amazon sales rankings I conclude Dewalt is probably #1. But, it's doubtful they have anywhere near 60% of the total professional market considering Ridgid, Hilti, Hitachi, and others are not even counted. Perhaps the rep meant 60% of Home Depot sales.
                  Finally, I spent more time composing this email than gathering and tallying the stats. So, obviously my sample data is not up to gallup poll standards. The conclusions are better than an opinion but not fact.


                  • #24
                    Back to the original question I think it will be bad news for Porter-Cable employees in factories making tools here in the States. DeWalt is being offshored to Taiwan and China. If B&D will do that to their allegedly high-end brand, why would PC be different. (and is it just me or has that offshoring reduced quality of DeWalt stuff? I don't think it's premium gear anymore).

                    Dunno about Delta. Probably job losses in administrative functions, but most of their stuff is made abroad already. Maybe what's left, a couple of saw models, will be shifted to Taiwan as well.

                    More cheapo crap from the big boys coming but we'll be expected to pay a premium based on the "old" company's reputation.


                    • #25

                      where did you hear that DeWalt is making things in Tawain and China. From all that I can see it is just their batteries and chargers but that everything else in Germany, Mexico and US.

                      you are right about the employees. It will be tough for both B&D and PC employees. You now have two people doing to same job you better believe the best person is staying and the other person is gone. That sucks for them but that should help us out in that the best customer service reps, best sales reps, best engineers and manufacturing people will be used to make all four brands.


                      • #26
                        where did you hear that DeWalt is making things in Taiwan and China
                        It's not some inside scoop from B&D, I just like to read "made in" labels in stores .

                        As an example, I have a DeWalt CMS "Made in USA". Just for grins I check the same model periodically. It's now "Assembled in USA of components from US, Mexico and Taiwan." Sounds like B&D marketing trying to spin something to me. As I understand it, in order to be able to claim "Made in USA", the manufacturer has to have a fairly high percentage of content made here. "Assembled in" means squat. Screwing a blade guard made in Taiwan on a saw made in China qualifies it as "assembled in USA".

                        The CMS that's one step down from mine is labeled as "Made in Taiwan". I'd guess that most Taiwan stuff has a high China content too.

                        Had to buy a 7" saw blade this weekend. DeWalt offering was made in China. Bought the US-made Oldham. (Didn't know Oldham was B&D, so maybe there is hope for PC )

                        I haven't bought a B&D tool in years cos I got sick of them busting on the second or third use. I did like DeWalt but I'm not going to pay the premium if it's made in Taiwan.

                        Maybe I'm the odd one out, but if I can I'll buy a USA made tool over a Taiwanese one. I don't buy Chinese made unless there's no other choice and even then I usually convince myself I'm better off keeping the money and thinking of some other way to do it.

                        I noticed recently that on a few DeWalt boxes in Lowes there was a VERY large "Made in USA" sticker on a couple of the models. Must be a few of us out there. Of course, it also highlighted that most DeWalt boxes did not carry that label.

                        BTW, that doesn't mean I'm busting on Rigid. If there's no US choice then I'll check out the Rigid . I'm busting on B&D and the possibility of more manufacturing job losses.


                        • #27

                          Gotcha. I understand where you are coming from about the made in america. I honestely have not seen a difference in quality between an american made tool and an oriental made tool. But I simply like the ideal of buying a tool made by americans because I want to support America. However as been discussed on this forum before US consumers are to blame for things going over seas. we want the highest quality at the lowest price and we are willing to shop around to get it. so over the years we have forced all companies...Dw, Mil, PC, Bosch, Makita, Ridgid to go over seas so they can give us a lower price. In addition in our attempt to help people get out of poverty we raise the minimum wage and by doing that we raise the cost of production in the US. It is a catch 22. IF you know what I mean.


                          • #28
                            You can bet some jobs will go. You can buy new tooling and when it is paid for it is done. When you pay labor it just comes back week after week.How ofen do you see a new owner come in and hire more people and give raises. They look to labor as a recuring expense.


                            • #29
                              I don't see the negative if it is made in say China. I wouldn't buy an American or Canadian made car, but that has more to do with quality then engineering. I understand nationalism but made abroad no longer is synonymous with cheap. Like I mentioned, the best quality cars are engineered in Japan or Germany. Really in the auto industry they are realy fighting quality issues compared to their asian counter parts. Don't get me wrong, I would like to keep the jobs here but the best way is to have quality like ridgid PC and Dewalt I guess.
                              Mick Chambers<br />Keller TX<br />


                              • #30
                                Well, that's depressing. So now should it ever come to the point where I sell any of my PC goods (for whatever reasons) I will have to preface it with "This was bought before Black And Decker took over ownership of Porter Cable".

                                And Delta quality? Kiss that goodbye.

                                I am indeed sorry to hear that this 106 year old company was sucked up by a manufacturer that has nothing but a legacy of designing and producing absolute junk. 'Throw-away tools' if you will.

                                My .02.