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  • R4511 220v?

    Hello,

    I have recently upgraded my electrical garage installation and I set up a couple of 220V outlets for my power electrical tools. Also on my R4511 and upgraded the electrical cord to a 12-2.

    Now my question for anyone who can help?

    Should I replace the "ON/OFF" switch for a heavy duty one?
    Does the original stock switch is capable of handling 220V safely?

    Thanks to all.

    Alonso

  • #2
    Re: R4511 220v?

    I would think it would be rated for 240V applications, almost all switches are. It will say on the switch the voltage and current that is supported by the switch. If you are running the saw on 240 the stock cord would have been more than adequate since by doubling the voltage it draws half the current.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: R4511 220v?

      I agree with Wayne, there really is no need to change out the switch.
      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: R4511 220v?

        Originally posted by Alonso83 View Post
        Hello,

        I have recently upgraded my electrical garage installation and I set up a couple of 220V outlets for my power electrical tools. Also on my R4511 and upgraded the electrical cord to a 12-2.

        Now my question for anyone who can help?

        Should I replace the "ON/OFF" switch for a heavy duty one?
        Does the original stock switch is capable of handling 220V safely?

        Thanks to all.

        Alonso
        Every electrical power service switch I ever looked at was rated at 600 volts. Discounting other types like the ones that low voltage (electronic devices etc.) use. Next time you go to HD look at a 120 volt switch it will say 600 volts max, as does a 240 volt switch. I believe that's stated in the National Electrical Code , but not sure. The number of poles etc., are are something else.

        Buck

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: R4511 220v?

          surprisingly, the owner's manual doesn't address either the switch or the change in plugs necessary when the saw is converted from 110 to 220. the older manuals, through the 3660, reviewed everything necesary to make the change, but the 4511 is missing some previously provided info. assuming they didn't stray too far from the parts bin of the 3660, i'll bet the switch applies to both 110 and 220.
          there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: R4511 220v?

            Rather than to get into the work of changing your table saw over to 240 Volts, how about putting it on a private 20 Amp. 120 Volt circuit and leaving well enough alone? I tried to find the manual online but can't find it. As for the switch, does it have 4 screws or connection tabs where there are 2 on each side? For 240 Volts you need to break both sides of the line as there are now two hot conductors.

            Question: Can you try to take and post some pictures of the switch close up? If you can do so please take them as the switch came wired.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: R4511 220v?

              The R4511 Repair Parts List book shows the motor wiring diagram on the back pages. It is a nomal acting switch for 120. The change is made in the junction box attached to the motor, where the white wire now becomes a hot also. It tells about marking the white wire with red or black tape indicating it is hot.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: R4511 220v?

                Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
                surprisingly, the owner's manual doesn't address either the switch or the change in plugs necessary when the saw is converted from 110 to 220. i'll bet the switch applies to both 110 and 220.
                FINER9998
                Yes I was aware of that, this is the main reason why I'm concerned about the stock switch capabilities.

                Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                Rather than to get into the work of changing your table saw over to 240 Volts, how about putting it on a private 20 Amp. 120 Volt circuit and leaving well enough alone? I tried to find the manual online but can't find it. As for the switch, does it have 4 screws or connection tabs where there are 2 on each side? For 240 Volts you need to break both sides of the line as there are now two hot conductors.

                Question: Can you try to take and post some pictures of the switch close up? If you can do so please take them as the switch came wired. Rather than to get into the work of changing your table saw over to 240 Volts, how about putting it on a private 20 Amp. 120 Volt circuit and leaving well enough alone? I tried to find the manual online but can't find it. As for the switch, does it have 4 screws or connection tabs where there are 2 on each side? For 240 Volts you need to break both sides of the line as there are now two hot conductors.

                Question: Can you try to take and post some pictures of the switch close up? If you can do so please take them as the switch came wired. Today 04:59 PMRather than to get into the work of changing your table saw over to 240 Volts, how about putting it on a private 20 Amp. 120 Volt circuit and leaving well enough alone? I tried to find the manual online but can't find it. As for the switch, does it have 4 screws or connection tabs where there are 2 on each side? For 240 Volts you need to break both sides of the line as there are now two hot conductors.

                Question: Can you try to take and post some pictures of the switch close up? If you can do so please take them as the switch came wired. Today 04:59 PM.
                Woussko

                I took several shots of my entire new electrical wiring. I thought it could be helpful to someone.

                Here they are

                First the new subpanel. The power line to the subpanel comes from a 200amp breaker (the main line of the house) and splits into 1 20amp breaker at 110v (left hand side bottom, you never know when you need another outlet) and 1 double 20amp breaker at 220v (bottom right hand side, dedicated to serve as 220v only.




                The second picture shows the outlet for the 220v waterproof



                Third picture shows the new plug for 220v



                The old (stock) wire connectors (sorry I couldn't provide a picture with them still attached at the switch since I replaced it with the new 12-2 cable early today.



                This is the new cable already connected to the switch. NOTE: white cable goes on the left hand side of the switch and the black one on the right hand side looking from the front of the switch (makes sense?) They are connected temporarely I hope to find some better terminals connections.



                And this is the new 12-2 cable







                But I believe I have found the answer to my question here if anybody could explain me what all those numbers mean?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: R4511 220v?

                  Thanks for the pictures. The switch in the table saw is a 2 pole single throw and thus will break both sides of the power coming in. It should be fine for 240 Volts just as it's shown. You should tape or ink the white wires red so as to mark them Line2 and not neutral anymore.

                  As for your sub-panel, I had in mind a larger one.

                  As for your table saw, look inside the wiring compartment and you should see the wiring chart. Follow it carefully and you should be OK.
                  Please note you really didn't need to use a twist lock plug and receptacle, but it's fine. Be sure it says L6-20 on on both.

                  Where do the black and red wires go to that don't look like they are connected to one of the circuit breakers but don't? Where is the grounding bar in your sub-panel? I see the neutral bar but no grounding bar. Such is a big NO NO and isn't safe.


                  WARNING: Electricity can be very dangerous and can kill people and/or burn down buildings.
                  If in doubt, please call in a known good licensed electrician. Don't take foolish chances, please don't.
                  Last edited by Woussko; 08-01-2009, 01:36 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: R4511 220v?

                    The wiring diagrams for voltage setup are on page 9 of my R4511 operators manual. You don't need to do anything with regard to the switch, the changes are made in the connection box mounted on the motor. Refer to the wiring diagrams noted above. My connection box uses regular wire nuts. The switch is all ready a two pole switch. If you do use 240 volts it is a good idea to change the plug so you don't inadvertently plug a 120 volt tool into the 240 volt socket. Of course you need a TWO pole breaker or fuse holder for a 240 volt feed. The neutral bar should have a bonding screw that grounds it to the cabinet. That insures double grounding Neutral + system ground. You need a system ground. Imagine a hot wire gets disconnected and lands on a box or metal switch cover, it's now hot too! A system ground ( usually a green or bare wire) will short it out and trip the breaker instead of you completing the circuit to ground and getting electrocuted. I remember as a kid before the code required a system ground getting shocked by touching the little screw that held the plastic cover on a duplex plug box in our kitchen, lucky we could not touch it and reach a faucet or other ground at the same time, our lives would really lite up.

                    Buck

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: R4511 220v?

                      The wire size on the 20 A breaker at the top is inadequate. If it is 14 gauge you need to change the breaker to 15 A. If it is less than 14 gauge you need to change the wire.

                      The marking on the switch
                      20-12A-125/250VAC
                      19-12A-125/250VAC

                      the 20 and 19 are the switch numbers likely referenced in the wiring diagram, 12A means the switch will support up to a 12 amp load, 125/250 means that you can use the switch on 120 V or 240 V connections.

                      I am concerned with your statement "The power line to the subpanel comes from a 200amp breaker (the main line of the house)", please tell me you did not splice the other end of those new wires to the main breaker. They should be on a dedicated 20A double pole breaker (like the new one in your subpanel). If the main panel is not to far away from the sub I would suggest pulling a larger set of wires maybe 8 gauge so you could have a 40A supply. The closer the panel the less it will cost for the wire.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: R4511 220v?

                        Wayne

                        I would like (or maybe not) to see just what he did inside of the main load center regarding the feed to the sub-panel. Looking at the picture of the sub-panel has me really wondering about several things, but it would take more pictures from different angles to answer my questions.

                        As I'm sure you know the suggestion (another member) about bonding neutral and ground shouldn't normally be done in a sub-panel. I don't see a grounding bar in it. I think but am not sure he has the ground wires somehow connected where they don't belong and what gives with wire nut connecting neutrals? Maybe I'm not seeing everything. It also looks to me like there's a stray red wire going nowhere. Did you see it?

                        I really think for SAFETY that he better call in a good licensed electrician to check everything and to do so ASAP.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: R4511 220v?

                          I think you are right about calling in an electrician.
                          I added some comment to his panel pic, I didn't look too closely before but there are a few things wrong. I think the 'stray' red actually goes to the power bus same as the larger black wire under the top breaker.
                          From what I see at a glance here is what I see that is not code
                          - Wire for the two circuits off the top 20A breaker are undersized
                          - No ground from the main panel
                          - looks like grounds go to a lug but there is no real ground terminal set and it does not matter what goes to it as there is no ground from the main
                          Attached Files

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: R4511 220v?

                            Originally posted by Woussko View Post
                            Wayne

                            I would like (or maybe not) to see just what he did inside of the main load center regarding the feed to the sub-panel. Looking at the picture of the sub-panel has me really wondering about several things, but it would take more pictures from different angles to answer my questions.

                            As I'm sure you know the suggestion (another member) about bonding neutral and ground shouldn't normally be done in a sub-panel. I don't see a grounding bar in it. I think but am not sure he has the ground wires somehow connected where they don't belong and what gives with wire nut connecting neutrals? Maybe I'm not seeing everything. It also looks to me like there's a stray red wire going nowhere. Did you see it?

                            I really think for SAFETY that he better call in a good licensed electrician to check everything and to do so ASAP.
                            Your right about not bonding a sub panel. What threw me was the fact he feeding directly from the main line rather than thru a 2 pole 20 A breaker in the main panel. On some older entrance panels their were power taps at the bottom of the bus bars, have not seen that in newer panels but I'm sure they are still out in the wild. Using power taps you would bond the sub.
                            With regard to wire 15Amps needs #14, 20 Amps #12. With 240 volts you draw 1/2 the amperage that you would with 120 volts. However I and most electricians I know go with #12 wire for everything, including lighting. Why, people have a habit off hanging more loads on existing circuits. #12 is not that much more money. The only time I use #14 is with 3 wire split duplex circuits. The only other consideration is voltage drop longer than normal runs need bigger wire. The operators manual has a drop table, you should use it!
                            The bottom line is you do not need a sub panel if you use a 2 pole breaker in the main panel to feed the saw. All you need to do is run to a box with a plug. If you want to run a lighting circuit off of it or a switch box with a switch loop off of it that ok too as long as the wire size is sized for the loads in question.

                            Buck

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: R4511 220v?

                              great photos of the wiring, thanks.

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