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Aligning my table saw: The fence is getting further out of square the further from..

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  • #16
    Are you ripping or cross cutting when you get burn marks?
    When you say the fence is out 15 thou, what are you measuring it against?

    David

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    • #17
      I have no problems with my ridgid fence, so I'd say if the fence is not defective, then the quality of the fence is not the problem.
      Which side of the blade is causing a burn? Or is it both sides.
      Are you using a feather board? If so, that could be the problem and could be dangerous.
      How are you feeding the wood? The answers to these questions could help find the problem.
      www.TheWoodCellar.com

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      • #18
        When I do a rip I get burn marks. I don't get any burn marks when cross cutting.

        I am measuring from the left miter slot to the fence with a dial caliper attached to a piece of wood. I set both the blade and fence up from the same slot on the table.

        The burn marks are always on the large piece of wood which I place between the fence and blade. The waste side does not have a burn mark on it. Every time I have ripped a piece long ways, the burn marks are terrible at the end of the board that goes in first and they slowly disappear about ¾ of the way back to the rear of the piece. I have no burn marks the last ¼ on the stock.

        I am not using a feather board but I do that occasionaly but not in the last few weeks because I have been trying to figure out this problem.

        I feed the stock by usually holding it with my left hand (as a guide when starting the cut) and using a push stick to keep a constant pace and pressure on the board. I don't rush a cut by any means. I tend to push the stock toward the fence or straight ahead the best I can.
        Thanks,

        Eric

        [ 10-19-2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: wizkid ]

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        • #19
          Update: I went back down stairs after re-reading my own post. I noticed that I am still ripping with an 80 tooth blade (Frued). Doh!

          I put my stock Ridgid blade back on, 40 tooth?, and proceeded to cut maple and oak with no problems except for two. I am leaving scuff marks on the cut surface and have a rooster tail like no other. I checked the blade and it is out as much as 0.006 to one side of center. Dang. So I am going to go pick up a new blade for ripping (40 or 50 tooth) and bring it back and give it a whirl. I don't want to realign my arbor when I know it was dead on for my 80 tooth frued. I want a new blade to reinforce the fact that I wore my old ridgid blade out ripping a large quantity of stock.

          I will post back my results.

          It feels good not to burn wood so bad it stinks up my whole shop.

          I also set my fence out ~0.006" in the rear away from the blade.

          Eric

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          • #20
            Eric,

            Don't get a 40T or 50T blade for ripping maple. You need a good quality Freud or whatever, with 24T.

            David

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            • #21
              Will do. I am about to head out the door. The Freud website told me to choose between these two blades from the answers I filled in on one of their surveys.

              TK306 and the LU87R010

              Not sure how many teeth but I will buy the best I can find under Freud. I will look for a 24 tooth blade there and pick one up.

              Thanks and I hope to have an update soon!

              Eric

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              • #22
                Picked up three blades from HD. I have ripped with the 24 tooth Oldham blade. cuts about the same as the stock ridgid blade but faster. Scuffs the wood some but no burn marks. Problem is now I have a lot of dust on the table after ripping a 24" long piece.

                I measured the runout on the blade/arbor and get 0.007". I have turned it over about 12 times and every time I get 0.006" - 0.007".

                I then check paralellism by picking a point and zeroing my gauge and then checking the same point on the far side of the table. I am ~0.002" to ~0.001". I check this on 4 different places on the blade and I get the same readings everytime.

                Any clue to why I have so much runout when three blades give near perfect paralellism?

                I am guessing I have some tilt in my blade and I am going to look at that a see. I do notice that when the saw blade is raised to where it hits the stop, the blade tilts a little, about 0.001" or so depending on how hard you hit the stop.


                Eric

                [ 10-19-2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: wizkid ]

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                • #23
                  Put 4th blade on saw and checked for runout.

                  the blade runs out 0.004".

                  I can get parallelism within 0.001" and I still continue to throw a lot of dust on the table. I am 0.001" away from the fence by the way.

                  I literaly have dust on my shirt and table to the point it is annoying after a simple rip.

                  Anyone replaced an arbor? How difficult is it? I am ready to just order one up and swap it out. I guess I need to check the runout on the arbor itself (without using a blade). Anyone done this and how?

                  Eric

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                  • #24
                    Are you using a zero clearance insert? What dust collector tool/machine are you using?

                    David

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                    • #25
                      Cutbuff: I am using the standard metal insert from Ridgid. I was afriad that the zero clearnace would make the problem worse. Is this not the case? I have not tried the zero clerance on it yet.

                      My dust collection can be seen here, http://www.installuniversity.com/ridgid/DCP_2068.JPG or here http://www.installuniversity.com/ridgid for more shop pic's. It is a delta unit with a 4" hose modified into the Ridgid catch unit, thanks Patrick A. [img]smile.gif[/img]

                      Let me summarize where I am at currently for those who may try to read this mess and get lost. Afterall, this all started 2 months ago and I am still going at it. Let's start from here.

                      I measured the run out on the blade. I have two Freud blades, an 80 tooth ultra and a 40 tooth Diablo. Both are exceptional blades and the run out is about 0.004” at the max point. I picked the furthest out point and then paralleled the blade to the slot by doing the front to back method using the same point. I have got this so close it is not funny. However, when measuring run out, turning the blade one complete turn and measuring the furthest run out from zero I am still about 0.004” out on the Freud blades. About 0.006” on the stock Ridgid and Oldham blade (24 tooth). However, when measuring front to back it always comes out 0.001” or almost dead-nuts for parallelism.



                      Sounds good, but I still get a lot of dust on the table. With the 40 tooth Diablo ripping pine I don’t get much dust at all. However, start cutting on oak or maple and I leave a trace of burn marks and quite a it of dust (with the 40 tooth Diablo or higher tooth blades). With the 24 tooth dust is every where but no burn marks. I am ready to change out my arbor but I am going to some how measure the run out on the arbor backing plate itself this week. I have cleaned all surfaces so I can rule out dust or crap in between the blade and washer or washer and nut or blade and backing plate.

                      Can you explain to me what to do at this point with the dust on the table? I am at a loss. Do you get dust on the table ripping hardwoods or pine? It is aggravating. I am using the metal insert from Ridgid and am afraid to use the zero clearance because I know it will compound the dust problem.

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                      • #26
                        because I know it will compound the dust problem

                        No you don't. You may think it will compound the dust problem, but you don't know it.

                        I don't _know_ either, but I get little to no dust atop the table, always running zero clearance. As in, I don't know where the original insert plate is. I would be shocked and amazed if my blades were running any truer than three or four thou total runout.

                        Easy check for your arbor. Mount a blade, measure runout. Loosen blade, rotate 90 degrees with reference to the arbor, retighten. Measure again. Repeat twice more. Any difference between the highest and lowest reading is indicating your arbor runout (not very accurately, you have to hunt for maximum and minimum runout to do this). The other way is to indicate the arbor flange itself, which is kind of a pain due to limited accessibility.

                        What you haven't mentioned, at least in your summary, is checking your fence parallelity. Having the blade be perfectly parallel to the left miter slot is fine and dandy, but if the fence isn't also perfectly parallel then all is for nought.

                        If your fence has been checked to be dead parallel with the right miter slot (as is common), have you checked that the two slots are in fact parallel? This is an uncommon manufacturing defect, but it wouldn't be the first time in Earth's history if they weren't parallel.

                        Dave

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                        • #27
                          Dave, you are correct. I left out that my fence is parrallel to the LEFT miter slot. I actually put the rear of the fence 0.002" - 0.006" away from the blade and it locks down like that everytime now after getting new extensions. [img]smile.gif[/img]

                          I will try your suggestion tonight and insert a zero clearance. You are correct, I don't know that it will compound the problem. Not sure why I started assuming after all the trouble I have had. You think I would learn to not trust anything at this point.

                          Thanks and I will report back as soon as I get in from work tonight.


                          ERic

                          [ 10-20-2003, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: wizkid ]

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                          • #28
                            Eric,

                            The pics you posted show the TS without the splitter/pawls/blade guard assembly. Has the assembly been on or off during your difficulties?

                            David

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                            • #29
                              Off.

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                              • #30
                                Wizkid, take a combo square or a framing square and check the squareness of the extension wing. I had the same problem and found that the wing was out of square. This caused the fence to skew slightly at the 6" mark and get worse the farther out it was. I hve it fixed temporarily with some shims, but I need to replace the wing with a good one.

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