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  • #16
    Re: Dust collection

    The Dust Deputy is awesome with my planer, router table, etc.

    Big G

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    • #17
      Re: Dust collection

      Right you can get the HF horses dust collector for $139.00 with coupon.
      I would look at it:

      http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...al%20Machinery

      Review: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...al%20Machinery

      Bert

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      • #18
        Re: Dust collection

        Originally posted by suobs View Post
        One question though:

        If 1 micron particles are the problem, why is filtering 35 microns (Harbor Freight portables) to 5 microns (2 HP Harbor Freight) the solution? Is there a way to modify the filter?
        Filtering down to 5 microns is not the solution. You must filter down to 1 micron. It is the 1 micron sized particles that get caught in your lungs and can cause the problem. 2 micron and larger do not get trapped, nor does anything smaller than 1 micron.

        Wynn Environmental produces a cartridge filter kit that will work on the HF DC unit. You can purchase a Dylos particulate counter to monitor the air quality in your shop to get a good idea of what methods work best. That's what I use.

        I have the Dust Deputy. Works as advertised. Great unit. I bought the DYI kit and couldn't be happier. I just put a couple of bricks in my 5 gallon pale as the unit is top heavy.

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        • #19
          Re: Dust collection

          Should one be concerned about the motor's cooling if the whole cabinet is sealed?
          How is fresh air to cool the motor getting in?
          Bert

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          • #20
            Re: Dust collection

            I was looking at Wynn Environmental' s installation. I see one problem, (if I am not mistaking) the filter is used "inside-out".The air flow should be from outside toinsode. In this installation the flow is reversed.
            It will work but a lot of filtering surface is wasted and this kind of air filters are not inexpensive.
            They should try to find a proper enclosure for it and then they could have a normal air flow and utilize the whole filtering surface.
            In fact I was to build on of them I would look for an enclosure with a cyclone prefilter, then this filter would last for ever (or a little less then ever)
            Even better I have access to industrial Hepa filter (about $600.00 a pop), no that would be a nice filter. I have to think about that
            Bert
            Last edited by b2rtch; 01-20-2010, 03:03 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: Dust collection

              The Wynn filter utilizes the same design as every other filter cartridge for DC.

              The surface area of the cartridge is far greater than any other filter type.

              I believe the surface area on these filters is somewhere around 96 square feet. I'm probably way off, but the surface area of the filter doesn't change because it's pleated in a certain way. You have 96 sq ft before you pleated it, you have 96 sq ft after you pleated it.

              These filters are not inexpensive, but neither are good filter bags. And the cartridge out performs the bag every time.

              If you want to reinvent the wheel, get your motor running and report back with some numbers. Till then I'll just keep using the system as is because it works great for me and many others.

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              • #22
                Re: Dust collection

                I used a 4" to 2.5" reducer fitting that I got at woodcraft and a shop vac for awhile and it did collect a lot of the dust but I still had to vac the inside of the cab once a week.
                Like others have mentioned, this is just a workaround to real dust collection. Even with a Hepa filter on the shop vac, I just felt I needed better.
                Ended up getting a 1.5hp canister unit from Penn State that does the trick superbly. No dust in the R4511 cab and just a few specks on the table top when I cut. I used a 4" Y connector with a 2.5 " on the Y to add my radial arm saw.

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                • #23
                  Re: Dust collection

                  " I believe the surface area on these filters is somewhere around 96 square feet. I'm probably way off, but the surface area of the filter doesn't change because it's pleated in a certain way. You have 96 sq ft before you pleated it, you have 96 sq ft after you pleated it."

                  I have been a mechanic and mechanical engineer for over thirty years.
                  Every single cylindrical cartridge filter I ever saw in use during these years always had the air flow from outside to inside, no exception.
                  Every single truck, construction equipment , air handler and AC, in my experience always use the outside/inside air flow.
                  I imagine that there is very good reason to that if only because even if the developed area of the filtering media is the same inside and outside, the pleads touch each other inside and not outside which seems to offer a larger area of filtration.
                  If I was to build my own filtration system, I would use something like a metallic trash bin or similar and to install the filter inside it with a lid and have the air flow entering the outside surface and exiting in the center, as I believe it should be.
                  In addition the would makes the all thing much quieter.
                  Bertrand

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                  • #24
                    Re: Dust collection

                    Now that I am really thinking about this, If I ever was going to build one of this, I would go to a demolition yard for construction equipment and I would find myself an old Farr air filter which was the most common air filter on construction equipment 25 or 30 years ago and which came equipped with a cyclonic pre-filter which was connected and the exhaust system so that it would be cleaned automatically.
                    I believe that this would be the best way to go instead or re-inventing the wheel.
                    If would be worth it to check Farr's website, they might still make these filters and prefilters!
                    One could also locate a Donalson air filter enclosure and do the same thing with it.
                    Bert
                    Last edited by b2rtch; 01-21-2010, 11:03 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Dust collection

                      Bert - have you looked at the Phil Thien baffle and other DC mods out there?

                      There have been some interesting mods in the past year or two on the HF DC unit that while it may not be a true cyclonic DC, it incorporates the principles and does a great job of separating the particles from the air stream.

                      I'll agree that the DC filter flies in the face of convention. I think you will find that regardless how counter intuitive it may seem, the airflow rate with a cartridge is vastly superior to any other media available.

                      As for placing a canister of some type over the cartridge and forcing the air flow outside to in, that may be feasible for you, but that would require some major re-working of the overall design. I just don't know that it's that big of an issue.

                      Since these filters are specifically designed for an inside / out air flow, it seems your main interest is in decreased resistance to the air flow. Might I suggest a larger cartridge?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Dust collection

                        Well, I went to buy the HF dust collector last night for $139.00.
                        I decide to install it outside my garage/shop in a shed and to use a Trash Can Cyclone Lid from Woodcraft ( 28.99 + trashcan) I think that this set up will work well for me , at least for the time being,evn if the total will be less than $200.00.
                        My next step is to install the dust pan on my already built and installed R4511, fun!
                        Bert

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                        • #27
                          Re: Dust collection

                          Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
                          The Wynn filter utilizes the same design as every other filter cartridge for DC.

                          The surface area of the cartridge is far greater than any other filter type.

                          I believe the surface area on these filters is somewhere around 96 square feet. I'm probably way off, but the surface area of the filter doesn't change because it's pleated in a certain way. You have 96 sq ft before you pleated it, you have 96 sq ft after you pleated it.

                          These filters are not inexpensive, but neither are good filter bags. And the cartridge out performs the bag every time.

                          If you want to reinvent the wheel, get your motor running and report back with some numbers. Till then I'll just keep using the system as is because it works great for me and many others.

                          For your information:

                          from: http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyc...Conversion.cfm

                          "We would get a little better performance by making a filter canister that sits on top of our dust collectors to hold the filter. A canister would push the air through the filter the way it was designed to work from the outside to the center and let us clean by vacuuming the filter outside. I don’t bother because making a canister is much more work for little gain. "
                          BillPentz.com

                          By the way Bill also recommends to use Farr filters, us I was talking about.
                          This is very good for me as I can get this filter at list price, quite saving!


                          Bert
                          Last edited by b2rtch; 01-23-2010, 12:03 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Dust collection

                            "I don’t bother because making a canister is much more work for little gain."

                            Bill Pentz


                            "As for placing a canister of some type over the cartridge and forcing the air flow outside to in, that may be feasible for you, but that would require some major re-working of the overall design. I just don't know that it's that big of an issue."

                            Me

                            I am not saying it isn't a good idea. Just that in the overall balance of things, there are many others matters to tend to that will ultimately serve us better in our pursuit of mitigating dust from our environment.

                            You really should check out Phil Thiens site.

                            And now that you have a HF DC, you may want to look at this mod and this mod, too.

                            Out of the box, the HF DC is a single stage unit. But with a little time and effort, these units can be converted into what I consider a hybrid unit.

                            Bill's site is a gold mine of info. However my budget does not allow for precious metals solutions so I have to improvise and rely on my Dylos particle counter to let me know how effective my DC collection methods and system are performing.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Dust collection

                              I just finished doing both.
                              I am at work since about 2:30AM (I get up at 2:30AM everyday)
                              I ran my first test just before my wife called me for breakfast.
                              I noticed quite a bit of dust in the DC plastic bag, more than expected.
                              I did not yet check the trash can.
                              I hope to have a Farr filter installed next weekend.
                              I wish I knew if I am going to move or not.
                              If I knew that I'll stay where I am, I would not use flexible hoses but rigid ABS or PVC, much more efficient.
                              Have a good day.
                              Bert

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                              • #30
                                Re: Dust collection

                                Something is not working quite right.
                                I just check the trash can , it is totally empty and I have saw dust int he DC bag. It is supposed to be the other way round!!!!!!!!!
                                Yes the hoses are connected as they are supposed to.
                                SO? Any idea?
                                I tried to upload the images but for some reason I cannot, it says "upload failed" each time?
                                I am going to try to upload them in another message.
                                Bert
                                Last edited by b2rtch; 01-23-2010, 12:05 PM.

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