Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Thin or full kerf blade?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

    I use the 50t Ridgid blade from HD. I've used it for years and I love it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

      Originally posted by tomapple View Post
      How does the smaller diameter impact the blade to riving knife relationship?
      On a saw equipped with a riving knife, going to a smaller diameter blade will increase the gap between the back of the blade and the riving knife. This gap reduces the ability of the riving knife to perform its primary function. To what degree it compromises this ability is hard to say. But I think with a riving knife, closer is better.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

        Originally posted by SpiffPeters View Post
        This gap reduces the ability of the riving knife to perform its primary function. .
        Yes, I know. Exactly my reason for posing the question to the OP.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

          Originally posted by tomapple View Post
          How does the smaller diameter impact the blade to riving knife relationship?

          I'm sorry, I left out the part about using it on my old Delta Contractors saw. I haven't used it yet on my R-4511.

          I plan on making a short riving knife, for my Freud Fusion, so I guess it wouldn't be out of the question to make a short/thin version for the smaller blade.

          I see your point very well though...the smaller blade is very thin compared to a full thickness blade, and the wood would probably bind on the OE knife.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

            Originally posted by tomapple View Post
            How does the smaller diameter impact the blade to riving knife relationship?
            The smaller diameter will increase the gap between the knife and the blade, and it changes the height relationship unless you adjust it. The smaller diameter will also present the equivalent of having a steeper hook angle due to the tighter radius, which helps increase the feedrate but also has more tearout.

            The point about the kerf difference of the smaller diameter blades is the key point though. If the kerf of blade is thinner than the knife/splitter, the wood will bind on the knife and poses a very serious safety risk.

            Here's my view of using the smaller blades to shave a few bucks off the price of your table saw system....many of us have several hundred to a few thousand dollars invested in our saws and accessories. The saw's performance is heavily impacted by the blade that's used....there's not much else that impacts the end performance more. While a $10 blade is definitely cheaper than a $90 blade upfront, it's not necessarily a better choce. They're not as well made, there are more complications/considerations from the $10 blade, the cut isn't likely to be as good, they limit cutting height, and aren't worth resharpening. As an alternative, I often see good $30-$50 blades go on sale or get clearance priced in the $15-$30 range (ie: Freud Avanti TK306 for $20, Delta 35-7657 for $17, etc), and I've seen the $90 blades on sale in the $60 range, more frequently in the $70 range. Even at full price, there are some excellent $40-$70 blades. My point is, unless you're cutting junk, I don't see skimming on the price of good blades as being a great solution to saving money on your saw unless those savings make a significant difference to you, in which case it's not likely that you have a top notch saw. Buying the $3 HF clamps instead of the $9 Besseys, making your own inserts, router table, or skipping the $100 alignment system and using a combo square or a piece of wood with a brass crew to check your saws alignment makes more sense to me....there are many other better places to save IMO.
            Last edited by hewood; 02-18-2010, 08:23 AM.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

              Originally posted by hewood View Post
              The smaller diameter will increase the gap between the knife and the blade, and it changes the height relationship unless you adjust it. The smaller diameter will also present the equivalent of having a steeper hook angle due to the tighter radius, which helps increase the feedrate but also has more tearout.

              The point about the kerf difference of the smaller diameter blades is the key point though. If the kerf of blade is thinner than the knife/splitter, the wood will bind on the knife and poses a very serious safety risk.

              Here's my view of using the smaller blades to shave a few bucks off the price of your table saw system....many of us have several hundred to a few thousand dollars invested in our saws and accessories. The saw's performance is heavily impacted by the blade that's used....there's not much else that impacts the end performance more. While a $10 blade is definitely cheaper than a $90 blade upfront, it's not necessarily a better choce. They're not as well made, there are more complications/considerations from the $10 blade, the cut isn't likely to be as good, they limit cutting height, and aren't worth resharpening. As an alternative, I often see good $30-$50 blades go on sale or get clearance priced in the $15-$30 range (ie: Freud Avanti TK306 for $20, Delta 35-7657 for $17, etc), and I've seen the $90 blades on sale in the $60 range, more frequently in the $70 range. Even at full price, there are some excellent $40-$70 blades. My point is, unless you're cutting junk, I don't see skimming on the price of good blades as being a great solution to saving money on your saw unless those savings make a significant difference to you, in which case it's not likely that you have a top notch saw. Buying the $3 HF clamps instead of the $9 Besseys, making your own inserts, router table, or skipping the $100 alignment system and using a combo square or a piece of wood with a brass crew to check your saws alignment makes more sense to me....there are many other better places to save IMO.
              hewood,

              If you get a chance would you mind listing a few of those "good" 30-50 dollar blades? That's right in my price range. I'm not looking to go dirt cheap but I just can't make it compute to spend $100. bucks for a blade to go on a $299. saw. Just me. I don't know, maybe I should see the good deal on the saw as an excuse to get a good blade.

              Also, are these 30-50 dollar blades you mention full or thin kerf?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                Just so we're clear, I'm not saying make the CS blade, your main blade. I was ripping some salvaged lumber, which as much as I checked, I was still scared there might have been some metal in. (fears unfounded...none found). I wasn't willing to run my $100 Fusion through it to find out, and it was a tight week, and I needed a cheap blade.

                I'm just saying I was pleasantly surprised at how well this blade cut. Wood pushed through with almost no effort, and it was a surprisingly clean cut with no tear out, or saw marks. Keep in mind it was a new, sharp blade.

                In the same situation, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. After I get the splitter thickness problem solved of course, I try to never rip without a splitter/riving knife.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                  Originally posted by postjob62 View Post
                  hewood,

                  If you get a chance would you mind listing a few of those "good" 30-50 dollar blades? That's right in my price range. I'm not looking to go dirt cheap but I just can't make it compute to spend $100. bucks for a blade to go on a $299. saw. Just me. I don't know, maybe I should see the good deal on the saw as an excuse to get a good blade.

                  Also, are these 30-50 dollar blades you mention full or thin kerf?
                  No problem - There are examples of both full and TK...your choice.

                  TK:
                  CMT P10050 50T ATB/R combo blade from Lowes for $40
                  CMT 256.050.10 50T ATB/R combo from Holbren for $45
                  Freud LU86R010 40T ATB for $42 shipped from Amazon
                  Ridgid Titanium R1050C (by Freud) 50T ATB/R combo from HD for $40
                  Freud Diablo D1050 50T ATB/R combo from HD and others
                  Freud Diablo D1040 40T ATB from HD and others
                  Craftsman Pro 32808 40T ATB from Sears (by Freud)
                  Craftsman Pro 32864 50T ATB/R combo (by Freud)
                  Freud Avanti TK306 40T ATB from Rockler for $20 (find a free s/h code)

                  Full Kerf:
                  Delta 35-7657 40T ATB from Cripe Distribution $18 (plus $10s/h)
                  Oshlun 50T ATB/R combo from Holbren for $28
                  Oshlun 40T ATB from Holbren for $25
                  Infinity 010-050 Combomax is on sale for $60 from Infinitytools.com

                  Other deals do pop up. If you see a Forrest WWII on sale for $64 shipped, I'd suggest spending the extra and grabbing it. The TK is easier for you saw to spin in thick materials. The best current deal (IMO) happens to be the full kerf Delta 35-7657 for $18 ($28 shipped). The CMT or Ridgid Titanium TKs look good at $40 too. IMHO the best overall blade on this list is the Infinity Combomax, but is $60 (I doubt you'll actually find a WWII for $64 right now). Any of these should do a very good job for you.

                  "NTR" - Your usage of the 7-1/4" is a good example of when to use a smaller cheaper blade to spare your premium blade.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                    Wow, ask and you shall receive! Thanks so much hewood, and thanks to all for providing help to this relatively inexperienced wannabe woodworker.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                      Originally posted by hewood View Post
                      If you see a Forrest WWII on sale for $64 shipped, I'd suggest spending the extra and grabbing it.
                      Do these come up regularly on sale (say once a year)? Some day I want to buy a premium blade like the WWII if I can find a good deal on one, but I'm in no rush so that would be ideal if I just had to wait a few months to a year.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                        Originally posted by secondo View Post
                        Do these come up regularly on sale (say once a year)? Some day I want to buy a premium blade like the WWII if I can find a good deal on one, but I'm in no rush so that would be ideal if I just had to wait a few months to a year.
                        That's about the lowest I've ever seen it, though the 30T WWII went on sale for $59 shipped once....it's rare. On sale in the $70s in more common but still only happens occasionally. As good as the WWII is, there are others equally as good IMO, which improves your odds of getting a great deal. Holbren sells both the Ridge Carbide TS2000 and the Tenryu Gold Medal everyday for ~ $81 shipped with "SMC10", "Woodnet10", or "BT310" discount codes to members of those forums. The TS2000 is available in both full and thin kerf, while the Gold Medal is only available in "mid kerf" of ~ 0.111". The Infinity Super General and Freud Fusion are both stellar performers too...they actually rip and crosscut cleaner, and make cleaner ply cuts than the other 3 mentioned, but they don't rip quite as efficiently in thicker materials (never a free lunch!).

                        If you want a TK and don't need to cut much over 5/4" to 6/4", the Infinity 010-060 and Freud LU88R010 (both < $70) will both eclipse the cuts of the WWII, TS2000, and Gold Medal, are still very versatile blades, but don't rip as efficiently....I'd lean to the 010-060 for cleaner ply and crosscuts, and clean rips up to 5/4"...the LU88 if you need to 6/4". You'd want to add a 24T or 30T ripper for better efficiency beyond those thicknesses.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                          FYI: I buy most of this stuff on Ebay, brand new. You can usually find what you want but you do need to be careful, that is do your homework - know what you would have to pay at retail and watch out for shipping/handling fees. I just bought a brand new Freud LU83010 10" blade for $39.99 delivered to my door, using "Buy it Now", that is no bidding. It does take time to search, watch, bid, pay, though.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                            Originally posted by gtmeade View Post
                            FYI: I buy most of this stuff on Ebay, brand new. You can usually find what you want but you do need to be careful, that is do your homework - know what you would have to pay at retail and watch out for shipping/handling fees. I just bought a brand new Freud LU83010 10" blade for $39.99 delivered to my door, using "Buy it Now", that is no bidding. It does take time to search, watch, bid, pay, though.
                            I have been wondering about buying mail order blades, whether on Ebay or from Forrest. Are they unlikely to be damaged in shipping, thinking about how true they should be.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                              Originally posted by Klawman View Post
                              I have been wondering about buying mail order blades, whether on Ebay or from Forrest. Are they unlikely to be damaged in shipping, thinking about how true they should be.
                              I've shipped and received several blades that were shipped without issue. They all get shipped to the store at some point. They just need to be properly packed.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Thin or full kerf blade?

                                Just wanted to say thanks to all who helped me here.

                                I just ordered a Freud Avanti TK306 on clearance from Rockler for $19.99, with free shipping with the code I Googled up using hewood's idea. I never would have thought of that so thanks again hewood.

                                I know this isn't a high end blade but it's gotta be better than stock and a good one to get me started.

                                The Freud rep said the Avanti line has been discontinued because they just had too many lines, and they're getting down to just 2 lines, the Diablo and the Commercial series. He said that the Diablo DT40X and the LU86R010 would approximate this TK306 but in their current lines.

                                He said by the way that they had never made blades in China, only Italy. I thought I read something to the contrary here, maybe not.

                                Thanks again!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X