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  • Burning wood on my TS2424

    I am new to this forum so forgive me if this has been recently covered. I have ask this question on the Wood magazine forum several times. I have had lots of good suggestions and have tried many solutions to no avail. Whenever I rip hardwood on my saw I get a burnt edge and sometimes smoke.
    I have purchased a dial indicator and precisely aligned the fence, also aligned the splitter. Have tried removing the splitter (temporally of course). Replaced the blade with a good carbide tip one. There is some run-out on the blade, .009. Most say that will not cause this problem. I have gone back through the manual and rechecked everything. Twice! This is obviously a good saw, I just feel that I am missing something or doing something stupid. I am not a seasoned woodworker YET.
    One more thing. It doesn't do it just when the cut-off piece is between the blade and fence. It was also burning some walnut strips that I was cutting with a shooting board.
    Thanks in advance,
    Don

  • #2
    Welcome to the forum Don.
    Wood burns because it's getting pressed against
    the blade. This increases friction, and increased
    friction causes increased heat. Now, if, like you
    say " There is some run-out on the blade, .009..."
    I have to ask which way is the run-out? Is the
    run-out squeezing the wood between the blade
    and the fence? Meaning, is the run-out at the
    back of the blade? Or is the run-out at the front
    of the blade?
    One way to check run-out and fence alignment
    without a dial indicator is to set the fence
    2" from the blade and make a 1" cut in
    a piece of wood. Turn off the saw, unplug it,
    remove the spliter/blade guard and place the
    piece of wood at the back of the blade. Now does the saw curf fit between the fence and blade the way it fits in the front of the blade? I think
    you will find that the wood is getting squeezed between the blade and the fence.
    Check your fence alignment with a straight piece
    of 3/4"x 2"x 24". Place the wood on edge in the miter slot and move the fence against it. To adjust the fence, loosen the bolts, clamp it to
    the fence and tighten the bolts.
    Just my 2ยข.
    John
    Eastchester, NY
    "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work."
    -Thomas Alva Edison
    "We can stand here like the French, or we can do
    something about it." ---- Marge Simpson

    Comment


    • #3
      Don,
      One thing that I do is set the fence 1/64" out on the back side of the table. This relieves any pressure on the stock on the outfeed side of the blade. (If you use the fence on the right you will have to re-align it).
      It's been a little slow on the forum the last couple of weeks but hopefully some of the experts will check in...
      What blade are you using for ripping?
      Patrick

      Comment


      • #4
        Don, some questions for followup, in order of importance to me.

        1) Where, geographically are you? Easiest thing in the world would be to have someone experienced over to check out your setup and operation. I bet I could answer why in 5 minutes or less in person.

        2) As Patrick asked, what sort of blade are you using? I have some very excellent blades indeed that cannot be used for ripping because they are designed for something else. Sort of blade means primarily tooth count, but if it's a major brand just the model number will do.

        3) Upon which side of the cut does the burn occur? Fence side, offcut side, both?

        4) Please describe briefly the steps you go through to set/verify the alignment of the saw. In example, "Measure from left miter to front of blade. Measure from left miter to rear of blade. Align fence to blade", like this.

        5) If you use the left miter slot to set the blade and the right slot to set the fence (which is very common), have you measured between the slots to ensure they are parallel? This is a very uncommon manufacturing defect, but it wouldn't be the first time it had happened.

        6) Roughly, how fast are you feeding? Have you tried speeding up a little?

        I bet you a dime we can solve this problem, if you have a lot of patience.

        Dave

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks to John, Patrick and Dave.
          I will go down the list as best I can.

          1)I live in Dallas, Georgia which is NW of Atlanta.

          2) My primary blade that I use is a Freud Dablo. I think it has 80 teeth.

          3) Somewhat erratic but usually both.

          4&5) This might be a problem that I didn't foresee.I set the blade parallel to the left slot ( The one that I use my miter gauge in.)
          and set the fence parallel to the slot on the right. I have not measured between the slots. I did set up the dial indicator after that and checked from the fence to the blade, front and back, same tooth. It was .002 wider at the back or out-feed.

          6) Dave, I don't know how to gauge this. I have played with different speeds and sometimes it seems to help and sometimes not. Plus, I have had people tell me to slow down.

          I have the patience if you guys do. I just have to do this from work because of a lousy internet at home. I am the boss, but I have to set an example you know.
          Don

          Comment


          • #6
            ) My primary blade that I use is a Freud Dablo. I think it has 80 teeth.

            Bingo! Go no further, that's the wrong blade, no wonder it is burning.

            In general for 10 inch sawblades...
            24 tooth, rip
            40 tooth, general purpose
            50-60 tooth, combination
            80 tooth, crosscut.

            Stop and pick up another Diablo, but a 24 tooth rip. They are pretty inexpensive. You'll find that three things happen. You'll have a LOT less resistance to cutting, allowing a faster feed. The burning will stop. You will get a little blade marking on the cut (if you don't, you truly did a great job on your saw setup).

            If someone suggests you feed slower to cure burning, they either misunderstood the question, or you need to be real careful taking their advice. The mechanics are this: Cutting generates a lot of heat. There are two places to carry away the heat, the sawblade and the chips. You don't want the blade to be the primary heat carrier, because it just gets hotter and hotter, until it chars the wood. You want the chips to carry away the heat, if you slow down you get fewer chips, not good. Make sense?

            In any case, your problem will be substantially resolved with the correct sawblade. Too bad you aren't in Dallas, Texas, instead of Georgia. [img]smile.gif[/img]

            Dave

            Comment


            • #7
              If the blade you are using really has 80 teeth, then it is not meant to be used for ripping. If it has more like 30, 40, or 50, it is likely a combination blade that you can use to rip or crosscut. If it's a combination blade, then the type of blade isn't your problem provided that it is sharp and undamaged. If it is an 80 tooth blade, then you need to either get a combination blade (40-50 teeth)or a dedicated ripping blade (usually 24 teeth) to do your rip cuts.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dave, I will double check that tooth count tonight when I get home and get back in the morning. Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning your advise, but does this mean I will need a different blade for ripping and one for crosscutting?
                Don

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are combination blades that are compromises for both ripping and cross cutting - even though with a good blade the compromsies are small (I only use one 99.9% of the time).

                  But you certainly don't want to use a specialized cross cut blade (like 80 teeth with specially sharp edges) for ripping, nor a specialized rip blade (like 24 teeth with a chisel/shovel shape) for cross cutting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    "does this mean I will need a different blade for ripping and one for crosscutting?"

                    Stuart and Charlie give good answers. My answer showed my prejudice, which is that I don't like combination blades. I do in fact use a different blade for rip and crosscut, changing between them.

                    Dave

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Don,
                      You can get a good combination blade or use several blades for specific purposes. I use the same blade as you do (Freud Diablo D1080X) and it is an outstanding blade for cross cuts in hardwood and finish cuts in sheet goods. It does not rip well at all - hard to feed, burns, etc. - so I use several different blades. If you search the forums you'll find pro's and con's for combo blades vs. task specific blades. Here is a link to Freud's blade search page:
                      http://www.freudtools.com/tool_searc...ion1&section=a
                      Another good site:
                      http://www.carbide.com/catalog/CTSB-...roupID=0101.01
                      I can't explain the engineering but the various blade tip shapes and angles greatly affect the cutting properties.

                      EDIT: Also, I use the stock Ridgid blade for rough/oversize cuts then switch blades for final cuts to dimension. This extends the blade life and keeps them from going to the sharpening shop more often.

                      [ 04-02-2003, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Patrick A ]
                      Patrick

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dave, Your the man! That was the problem. Before buying another blade I tried ripping some red oak last night with the stock Ridgid blade and I could not make it burn.

                        I would never criticize any of the great people on other forums that have tried to help me but you were the first to ask about tooth count.

                        I purchased that blade shortly after buying the saw. At that time I was making a lot jigs and fixtures out of MDF and plywood. It worked great for that and it never occurred to me that I couldn't use it for everything. Then my grandson ask me to build him a display case for his Hot wheels collection and I thought "red oak".That was when the problem started.

                        Well, I'm 55 and I learn something new everyday.
                        Thanks to all on this forum for the help and good advise. Maybe someday I can return the favor.
                        Don

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Welcome to the Ridgid forum, Don!

                          Glad it worked out, oftentimes it isn't that easy.

                          Dave

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