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Some burning on rips with TS3650

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  • Some burning on rips with TS3650

    I recently purchased my TS3650, and love it! After much reading in this forum, I took my time setting it up and calibrating everything. Now I have a machine that I am proud of; everything seems right on the money.

    Having said that, I have had an issue with burn marks when I have started ripping red oak. My rip fence is to the right of the blade, and the blade is at 90° to the table. I am ripping 1x6x2ft boards in half, and the burns are occurring on the piece between the fence and the blade. Everything measures square and parallel.

    My setup includes a brand new RIDGID (Freud) titanium thin kerf combination blade with 50 teeth. See it here. I also have a zero clearance insert from Might-T-Track that is adjusted correctly and works fine. The saw guard / splitter is always used, and the splitter is lined up.

    I know I am being a little lazy in not using a rip blade, but I must add that these new blades from RIDGID, pretty much the same as the Freud Diablo series, put a jointer-like finish on the edge. They are very smooth!

    My problem may have to do with feed rate. Last year, Dave Arbuckle posted a reply to a similar problem. He said the problem (which is mostly with hardwoods) has more to do with blade choice sometimes, and that one should either increase the feed rate, if the saw will allow it, or choose a blade with fewer teeth.

    Sure enough, I did try increasing my rate of feed by a bit, and with practice, I was able to make any burn marks all but disappear. This does require more effort on the operator's part than I was anticipating, but I must admit that most of my previous work, which was not a lot, was done primarily with softer woods.

    Do any of you have any comments on this? Certainly, a good rip blade would help this, but I guess if I want to use the new combo blade, I just need to "sharpen" my skills some.

    Thanks in advance. You guys are always a big help.
    Steve
    There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.

  • #2
    Steve

    I have a well tuned TS2424 turning a Forrest WWII and if the board to be ripped is wide enough that a safety device of some kind is not required and I can use my hand to push it past the blade while keeping pressure against the fence, I get a burn free cut. If it is a narrow piece, I tend to get burn marks and they show up most noticeably in Cherry. I also have a Freud Glue Line Rip blade and obtain similar results, so it is not the blade it is something in my technique. How do you like the thin-kerf blade, although my saw seldom bogs down I had often thought it might be the wise way to go with only a 13 amp motor?

    Woodslayer

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    • #3
      Thanks for the reply, Woodslayer. I like the thin kerf (.098) 50 tooth blade, although I did not buy it for just that reason. The stock blade (40 tooth combo) is actually a pretty good blade. I have not measured the kerf of the stock RIDGID blade, but it appears it may even be a fraction less than the new one.

      Time will tell, but the new blade appears to be very smooth running, and has low vibration. With the titanium alloy construction, it should run cool as well.
      There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.

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      • #4
        get some featherboards to hold the stock close to the fence right before contact with the blade.
        I usually use two that apply some heavy pressure. Then you cna focus on feeding the board at a faster rate, but keep it uniform. most burn marks are form pauses in pushing the stock. Also your blade height may be something you need to look into.

        Are you also locking down the blade height on the handwheel?

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        • #5
          Blade height may have something to do with it, but i doubt it. Most often , it is either a feed rate problem, or a blade alignment problem. Since the blade is parallel, it is a feed rate problem. Oak, Maple and Cherry have a tendency to burn if not kept moving through the blade, or moved through fast enough.

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          • #6
            Steve, how did you check for square? The reason I ask is there are varying degrees of square. A saw that is setup with an out of square carpenters 'square' will be off. Even an accurate carpenters 'square is not as accurate as a dial gauge. It sounds to me like your fence is marginally tighter to the blade at the back side of the blade. If you followed the manual you set you saw blade parallel to the left miter track and you set the fence parallel to the right miter gauge, they are not likely exactly parallel to each other and all your error may be additive. If you achieved the 0.015 tolerence suggested in the manual and you add all the errors you may be up to 0.045. IMHO 0.015 is not close enough to prevent burning in cherry. I would suggest you use a dial gauge off the right miter to set both blade and fence. If you want a quick test, skew the fence a bit to the right at the back and see if you get less burning

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            • #7
              Thanks again everyone for all of the good comments. I am going to buy a good dial gauge tomorrow. Actually, I set both the blade and the fence parallel to the right miter slot only for the reason that wbrooks stated. I used an adjustable square in the miter slot, and used the ol' compare the same tooth method on both sides of the swing of the blade.

              I have also placed my fence slowly right against the blade (raised to full height) and it touches the blade very parallel. I examined the blade runout a bit by using a good 6" steel engineering square. I kept one edge against the miter gauge, and noted that the other (right angle) edge stayed virtually perfectly flush to the blade as I slowly rotated the blade by hand.

              I do seem to have almost no burning when I move the stock faster. I also don't seem to have any burning when I use the stock 40 tooth blade that came with the saw, although the cut is not as smooth as with the titanium 50 tooth blade.

              Interestingly, I was talking to the guys at Might-T-Track today as I was looking at a couple of their products. One guy mentioned that the new titanium (Freud) RIDGID blade probably has less runout than the stock Chinese blade. It is that tighter runout that makes the blade less forgiving. (By the way, smashp, I agree with you on the feather boards; I used one for most of the cuts.

              I may also try what a number of people, including the guy at Might-T-Track, have suggested: Tilt my rip fence OUT about .004" at the back of the fence, which is about .002" at the blade.

              Again, thanks for all the comments, folks. I'm learning as I go. I love the saw. It's a godsend after fussing with a Shopsmith for over 10 years.

              Steve
              There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.

              Comment


              • #8
                Yes it could be any number of the above things. If you are ripping a lot of hard woods (oak, etc) you need to buy a dedicated rip blade. My personal favorite is the CMT line. in addition to them matching the HD orange they are a superior bit for the money. I started out with the CMT general and then bought the rip. complimented it with a melamine blade and put a cmt on my miter saw too.

                The trick is to keep them clean (cmt formula 2050 is an AWESOME product), ensure your blade and your fence are parallell. feather board will help. blade height should be no more than three teeth above the top of the board.

                before i bought my rip blade i used my general to rip oak. Not lots and lots but on occasion, what i would do is rip it in three passes. raising the blade a bit each time.

                a lot of guys will also wax their blades. beeswax/candle wax, etc.

                make sure you are using slow even pressure and make sure as you are ripping the board is staying against the fence once it clears the blade. there is a thread somewhere on here which talks about blade guard use. i am not trying to relive that debate. my blade guard is not installed, i use a push block to feed the wood and a hold down stick to keep it against the fence on the opposite side of the blade. this works well for me.

                my thought is if you have a jointer why spend all that money on the forrest that many claim is an awesome blade but dulls quickly, when you can buy a quality blade,for a lot less maybe get a little burning rip it just a hair too wide and fine tune it on the jointer. The reason i bought the CMT for my miter saw is that was the only place that the CMT general was burining on my 3612, miter cuts
                \"A SHIP OF WAR IS THE BEST AMBASSADOR\"<br /><br />OLIVER CROMWELL

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                • #9
                  Spacebluesonoma, thanks for your input. I know a dedicated rip blade is the way to go if I start to rip a lot of hardwood stock. By the way, I did not say I have a Forrest blade; I got a couple of the new RIDGID blades, which are made by Freud. The 50-tooth combo was under $50.

                  I have now tilted my fence outward by a tiny bit (going to buy a dial gauge later today). I am also using feather boards, and have increased my feed rate slightly. There is virtually no burning anymore.

                  It is interesting that it is easier to burn the red oak with the supposedly better blade versus the 40 tooth stock blade that came with the saw, all other things being equal. But if my fence was as parallel as I think I had it, the extra runout that the stock blade probably has over the Freud/RIDGID actually might make the wood a bit more forgiving to burning. I'm not suggesting that greater runout is a good thing, but in this case, a better blade can help magnify any problems.
                  There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.

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