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out of square

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  • out of square

    Looking to buy new table saw. Brother inlaw has new 10" Rigid, paid around $600.00 at HD. Went to check out his new saw and found the following. after squaring cut off fence with saw on right side, then placed the cut off fence on the left side and fence IS NOT SQ with saw. Tried several different squares and the results were the same. I like the saw but not cutting square makes it worthless to me. Open for suggestions and is it possible that the saw may have a factory defecf?

  • #2
    First of all, you have to square the fence rails to the blade, not the table. (or the miter slots) Aluminum fence rails will follow the tables shape. The wing extensions are known to be off square, requiring shimming of the rails.

    Once you have squared the rails properly, you will find it will cut as accurate as any saw of any price. This is the case of any saw, of any price. That is why they supply shims and instructions on how to do it correctly. You just need to be motivated, dedicated and take the time and set up the saw correctly.

    And not only true for the table saw, but for any machine to be precise. The set up is the whole key to the success of the machines abilities. As the old saying goes, it's not the machine, it's the operator. Or in this case, the one who sets up the machine.

    [ 04-05-2004, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: UO_Woody ]
    John E. Adams<br /><a href=\"\" target=\"_blank\"></a>


    • #3
      I second Woody. I followed the directions and only required one shim. My 3612 is dead nuts on.
      Can someone help me install this blade!!!!!!


      • #4
        I understand that the rip fence must be set up with the saw blade and this saw cut great when ripping, but when using the cut off fence in the two groves in the table top, the right side will cut square but the left will not. In my older years,after hair loss, hearing loss and eye glasses, it appears now my mind is getting thick. I can not understand why the machined groves in the table top are not square with the saw blade. HELP HELP.
        Thanks David


        • #5
          I agree with what the others are saying, but you may also need to adjust the trunnions. This will allow the arbor assembly to be moved slightly. The manual outlines the procedure in doing so. Once you get the tunnions adjusted, you should not have to do it again. Depending on what model of saw it is, it may have micro adjust trunnions in which case it should be really easy.


          • #6
            DW - Is there any chance that the miter slots are not parallel with each other? If so, regardless of what you do to the blade adjustment, a discrepancy will still exist. Move the fence out of the way, lower the blade, and take precise measurements between the slots at several locations.


            • #7
              I think I get what you're saying now. You're using the mitre gauge to crosscut a piece of wood using the right mitre slot. You make a cut, check for square, and adjust the mitre gauge accordingly, and re-cut until you get a perfect 90. Then, you move the mitre gauge to the left slot, make a cut, and it doesn't measure at 90.

              At first glance, that would seem to imply that the two mitre slots are not parallel. Unlikely, but it's easy to check for yourself by measuring.

              More likely, and as Jeff P. has suggested, the blade is not running parallel to the mitre slots. Crosscutting when the blade is not parallel to the slots will affect the right side differently from the left side, depending on whether the blade leans "into" the mitre at the front or the back. As you slide the wood forward in the mitre slot, the distance from the blade will change. Depending on the size of wood you cut, or whether you follow the cut through to the back of the blade will make the cut edge difficult to measure.

              Adjusting the mitre gauge slightly to compensate may appear to "fix" the problem on one side of the blade, but it's really not the same thing.

              Check to see that the blade is running parallel to the mitre slots.


              • #8
                I agree with Jhill. The blade should be set to parallel to the miter slot and not the fence. You have to have a reference point and the fence is not it.

                I own a Jet contractors saw, so I'm not familiar with the tune up instructions for the Ridgid saws, but if you search the web for "Table saw alignment" you get lots of responses for blade alignment, I did'nt check everyone but I'd bet they all say align with a miter slot.

                Choose a slot that you will likely use most of the time with a miter gauge. Align your blade as best you can, some say to with in 0.001 - 0.003. You then align the fence to the miter slot, many will say 0.001 out from the blade for the fence.

                There are lots of jig designs for doing this with a dial-indicator. And you can purchase purpose built jigs for this purpose. I use the TS Aligner Jr..

                Woodshop Demos has an excellent guide to what needs to be done. He was using a Super Bar.

                I've even made and used a simple home made jigs similar to this.

                Adjusting the miter gauge to the blade alignment can get you by, but if you use something like a panel cutter or "Dubby" that uses both slots, it will be difficult if not impossible to get it lined up. Miter gauges like the older Osborne EB-1 and EB-2 specifically say that the blade must be aligned to the slot, there is no adjustment in these two gauges.

                Also, many times the miter slots are not absolutely parallel to each other. So choose the slot you are most likely to use.

                [ 04-06-2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: Darrell ]


                • #9
                  I just looked at the manual for the TS3650. Page 23 discusses aligning the blade with the "gauge groves". Page 35 discusses aligning the fence with the miter grooves.


                  • #10
                    To All
                    Thanks for the help. Probably my brother inlaw would not think much of me messing around with his saw. (TS3650) I will just have to buy one and hope for the best. My step father is a tool-maker,so if I should buy the TS3650 and setup starts to get the best of me, I have great backup with my step Dad.
                    If you own a TS3650, would you ever buy another or recommend it to a friend?


                    • #11
                      Yes and Yes.

                      I've had my TS3650 for about 3 months now. I've been doing home remodeling and cabinetry projects for many years, but I have just recently started doing some work part-time for hire. Before getting this saw, I did everything with a small Skil 10" benchtop tablesaw.

                      My current project has been to build a large 10' wide x 7' high x 2' deep entertainment center. It would be almost impossible for me to work with pieces that large with the little tablesaw I had. With the TS3650, all I need is to put one of my benches behind the saw as a temporary outfeed table, and I can handle ripping full sheets of plywood all by myself. I haven't built any kind of crosscut sled, so I still have to use a circular saw for long crosscuts.

                      There is about 15" of table in front of the blade which allows you to get the sheet setup and aligned with the fence even when you're holding the rest of the sheet 7 feet away.

                      It's also the first time I've been able to use a "real" dado blade. Plenty of power and stability.

                      But, for me, the biggest advancement over my previous "toy" tablesaw is the fence. I used to spend so much effort on getting the fence set, then making sure that I made every cut I needed at that size, because I knew I could never get exactly in the same spot again. I know there may be better, fancier ones out there, but this one has worked flawlessly for me. It took several cuts to believe that I really did not have to re-measure the front and back of the fence after lock-down. Once I started to trust it, my productivity went up dramatically.

                      I really like the herculift mobile base. I like how all four casters can swivel so moving it around in any direction in a small shop is much improved over the ones that have two fixed wheels.

                      So far, I'm still using the blade that came with the saw. I've ripped a lot of 1x oak and I do get some slight blade marking on the edge. Still head and shoulders above my benchtop saw. I might consider spending a bit more on blades now to see if there is any additional improvement. Previously, I just could not justify putting a $70 blade on a $120 benchtop saw.


                      • #12
                        I believe the issue identified here has to do with the two sides of the fence not being perfectly parallel to one another. This is a well-known phenomenon, and it seems to be shared by virtually all table saw fences, rich and poor alike, except the Bess. There is a recent article in one of the magazines about this.

                        In fact, most folks employ their fence on one side (either left or right) for 99% of their work, which is why the lack of parallelism in the fence sides doesn't seem to get people too excited.


                        • #13
                          I have also had my 3650 for about 3-4 months and I can only echo what jhill said about his. I will never have to buy another one because I honestly believe this one will last the rest of my life and yes, I have recommended it to friends. [img]smile.gif[/img]
                          "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06


                          • #14
                            Here's another thing to try. First, square your mitre guide using a good square as your reference(not the blade or the table). Crosscut a wide hardwood board from the left slot and then another from the right slot. Keep track of which board is which and the direction of cut on each. Inspect the cut edges very carefully looking for the slightest signs of blade burn. If there is any at all, the arbor needs alignment (trunnions). The relative position of the burn marks will tell you which way the arbor is skewed.


                            • #15
                              Give these a try. The first is a good resorce for saw set up. The second is an excelent tool for setup.

                              I came...<br /><br />I saw...<br /><br />I changed the plans.