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  • #16
    Scoop,

    As you can see, the term "a decent saw for woodworking" covers a lot of territory. It all depends on your meaning of "woodworking". It could be anything from birdhouses to heirloom furniture etc. or anywheres in between.
    I own a 3650 and like it a lot. I have progressed beyond birdhouses (still make some from time to time) but a looong way from the heirloom furniture.
    The only change I have made to my 3650 is to use full kerf dedicated blades for ripping and crosscutting.
    I am totally satisfied with the fence system. It locks square and solid, slides easily, and has been totally repeatable. No it's not a bies but I can find better use for 2 or 3 hundred dollars.
    As for power, I have ripped 6/4 oak and hard maple with no difficulty.
    The hercu-lift system is great for moving the saw and when the saw is in the down position it shows no sign of trying to move.
    In my opinion this is a solid, decent contractor style tablesaw and well worth the price.

    Cranky,

    That griz looks like it could be worth considering. They must really be proud of that powder coated finish. They list it 3 times in the product description.
    Just a couple of things I noticed. The standard rip capacity is 30". Longer rails are an extra $175 including shipping. Looks like motor is 220V only. May or may not be an issue.
    Just my 2 cents.

    [ 02-19-2004, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: Lorax ]
    Lorax
    "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

    Comment


    • #17
      Lorax - you right and I forgot to mention the power issue. It may or may not pose an issue for some. The standard version (1.5 hp) is 110v but amp draw high so I would think a 20a 110 may trip and 30a is better. Or just do 220v - which most rewire to from what I hear/read. If it's not there though and one cannot rewire themselves ..... more cost.

      The 57" rails with 30" rip I suspect is what most will be shipped with. Takes up lotta shop space to put on the big monsters doesn't it! To much for most non-dedicated set-ups.

      Sure as dickens is a wide open whole spectrum of variety and colors out there at that. Not like buying a '50's vintage car... "will it be black or white sir?"
      Wish I had the answers ..... even half of \'em

      Comment


      • #18
        No better substitute for power than a clean, waxed table----properly aligned saw and good blade. My saw only has a 1 hp motor, but has cut 8/4 oak with no trouble----slower feed, but I wasn't going anywhere.

        I have the 40" Biese' on mine. It takes up a bit of room, but nicely doubles as an assembly and painting table---obviously with a cover on it.
        Dave

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        • #19
          daveferg has hit the nail on the head, when it comes down to it a properly setup saw with a good blade trumps the best saws that are not setup correctly or use inadequate blades. I check my saw for accuracy about once week. It only takes a couple of minutes and it pays off. If you don't maintain your saw the errors will eventually get large enough to cause bad cuts or become dangerous.
          www.TheWoodCellar.com

          Comment


          • #20
            Cranky,
            This may sound strange, but this morning I was thumbing through one of the most recent editions of Popular Woodworking and I notice the Grizzley saw you cite in an ad. My first thoughts was that I stand corrected on the post I had made just a few hours before. Although I don't recall the rip capacity, the Grizzley is price below $600 and does include a Bies. clone. I'm not sure what the total price would be if one included a mobile base, which some don't need, and there may be a need for additional rip capacity (not sure what it was on the Grizzley). In either case, the price is close enough to $600 that I would give it serious consideration if I were in the market. As mentioned above, a single point fence system has definite advantages over a two point. To properly align the fence on my 2424 I had to remember to put some forward pressure on the fence as I locked it down. I forgot to do this enough to where I would either recheck the alignment or run a scrap piece before I made a final cut. It was almost always right, but almost always means occasionally off. However, the fence on the 3650 does seem a bit beefier.

            Comment


            • #21
              Saws and more saws and even more saws. I see it coming soon.

              The Old Country Saw Buffet!

              Having choices is wonderful. If only somebody would invest the capital and be willing to create a place we could really see every model side by side, cut some wood with them, adjust the fences, and move them around all in the same vicinity of one another we may resolve in our minds what is best for us. For numerous reasons it of course shall never become a reality.

              It was stated to me once by a gentleman who once was in the new and used tool business that he floor planned at all times several big named brands. The one providing the most co-opted advertising budget and largest margins at the time always had the best and largest showroom area. The lesser margined or sometimes "off brand" equipment of course got less - of everything. If there was a better feature or one that was receiving "press" it was front and center. If a similar product was offered by that "other" vendor it was moved as far away as possible to avoid the "comparable" review.

              Even the used tools received the same treatment - what he needed or wanted to move was front and center either for profit reasons or other.

              These forums do provide us with an opportunity to at least "see or hear" about many brands of tools. No doubt we can all be biased if we like what we own. Or don't.

              Even then if you are like me something stuck inside the memory that made us decide that IS the one. Really suspect for some it may have been an idea or comparison from someone who maybe had less than unbiased motive for doing so at that.

              Get out and really kick the tires before deciding. Hate to say it - what you likely really need to remember for actual comparison will change as each is different and without a photographic memory and the ability to go back and forth every time a new thought creaps into the thought process so that you can again see this vs that - the whole process of buying the "best" is confusing-time consuming and almost overwhelming.

              Did I say every idea and thought posted above also has merit(s)?

              Every saw listed is what I would state strongly - a decent saw. You most likely will find everyone "wanting" in some area - even the heralded Unisaw and PM66. We adapt them to needs as they become known. A sliding table, an outfeed, a this-a that. Human nature?

              The only thing 100% missing on every saw discussed every time is the time and indecision we spend deciding - it could be shop time learning to do what we need to know to do what we want on the tool.

              I apologise for this post in advance. It is long winded and a semi-circle solving nothing. I admit I need to get into the shop and repair a sloppy finish I butchered last night. Trying to get this spraying down to science and less than happy with what I saw this am.

              Best of luck in decision process and hope it gets done so you have time to get things done too.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by glh:
                Cranky,
                This may sound strange, but this morning I was thumbing through one of the most recent editions of Popular Woodworking and I notice the Grizzley saw you cite in an ad. My first thoughts was that I stand corrected on the post I had made just a few hours before. Although I don't recall the rip capacity, the Grizzley is price below $600 and does include a Bies. clone. I'm not sure what the total price would be if one included a mobile base, which some don't need, and there may be a need for additional rip capacity (not sure what it was on the Grizzley). In either case, the price is close enough to $600 that I would give it serious consideration if I were in the market. As mentioned above, a single point fence system has definite advantages over a two point. To properly align the fence on my 2424 I had to remember to put some forward pressure on the fence as I locked it down. I forgot to do this enough to where I would either recheck the alignment or run a scrap piece before I made a final cut. It was almost always right, but almost always means occasionally off. However, the fence on the 3650 does seem a bit beefier.
                glh - 57" rails are standard with a 30" cutting capacity on the $525 model.Above it was stated the big rail option was $175. I believe these are 74"(?) I looked at the site above and did not see them listed there. Reasonably sure the catalog had listed as 74" - someone correct me if wrong please.

                To Cranky - how big are rails on the one you setting up? I wonder if they ship with both sets if you buy the optional large ones? Some companies have been known to not do so unless requested. Personally I would like both in the event the large ones became to much in shop at future point.

                Must get to work - have a great day everyone

                Comment


                • #23
                  One thing to note is that the Grizzley saw is 2 hp, 220v.

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                  • #24
                    hey I like the grizzley z model will it run on 110 volt pretty good and does anyone own one if not does anyone think this is a definite good saw

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Scoop - sadly no, 220v. For some it may pose problem I suspect. I am one who does advocate rewiring even a 110v to 220v regardless. Easier on overall loads in panel. Most of the more powerful tools and DC's require 220v - never hurts to have a couple handy for these reasons. If one has sub-panel nearby or any handyman type skills it's a pretty simple and straight forward thing you often can do yourself.

                      I may have tossed out a bone that some cannot chew here - sorry.

                      Chip-I am not sure on rails. The ones I saw were the standard 57"ers but I think he may have ordered the larger ones after initially ordering. I'd best make a call and have them check into it -PITA to get done and they come day after. Game plan is this weekend to get it done - long drive for me so need weather to cooperate here.
                      I'm looking forward to it actually - many very old tools in the various buildings. Not sure what works and doesn't - he liked to look and collect things over years and not necessarily use them. It's kinda fascinating --- like a museum in some ways.I know Jane has stated she has no idea what's around and I believe it. I guess there is another property he owned that has numerous barns and tool cribs. be fun to check it all out.
                      Wish I had the answers ..... even half of \'em

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by scoop:
                        hey I like the grizzley z model will it run on 110 volt pretty good and does anyone own one if not does anyone think this is a definite good saw
                        Addressed power above - here is a link. A couple others out there too - do search on various forums. Hope this helps.

                        http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthr...apsed&sb=5&o=7

                        http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthr...fpart=all&vc=1

                        http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthr...lapsed&sb=5&o=

                        [ 02-19-2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Cranky ]
                        Wish I had the answers ..... even half of \'em

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                        • #27
                          I bought a 3650 about 2 months ago and other than the lack of accessories, I'm pretty happy with it. Before I bought it I was looking at the General or the Dewalt hybrid but couldn't find any local to test out. I was basing my choices on FineWoodworkings mid-size table saw review.

                          One thing I noiticed about the Ridgid is that I had to do very little adjusting out of the box. Here is a quote from FWW about the PM64: "The blade was out of parallel with the miter slot, and the factory 45 degree tilt setting was off by several degrees. Both can be adjusted, but for $899 it's fair to expect everything to be set accurately at the factory".

                          Sure, I admit there are much better saws out there, but for the money (with the 10% off coupon) it's tough to beat the new Ridgids.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Hi scoop - A guy on the Woodnet forum put together a pretty good review of the Griz w/pics. Hopefully this link will take you there.
                            0444Z review from TMAN

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Greenhorn. I would think that every company would have some saws that need more or less tweaking than others. They get bumped around on the road no matter how good the packaging is.

                              I have the PM. mitre was out from blade .012 from the box. 20 min to tweak it up to .001. no big deal. Had to tweak the fence to the right a little and 45 & 90 were set up perfect from start. I would not judge quality of one brand over the other from how it came out of box. They will vary from box to box from any manufacturer.

                              CHIPMAKER. The closest thing I've seen to tire kicking store is Woodcraft. They have most every machine < except ridgid > set up in showrooms here

                              REGARDING LONG RAILS ON GRIZZLY - 175 bucks seems quite steep for extra 20 inches. Can anyone confirm that. Most companies upgrade bies style to longer length for approx 50 bucks.

                              Jake

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I agree with you about the price of the longer Griz rails. With most saws, the extended rails are an option for anwhere from $20-$60 more. Is that for just the rails? If they don't offer any credit for the originals, then it's really a rip off. If it includes the entire fence with long rails, it's still an expensive route to longer rails, but it does leave you the option of selling the original setup....PITA though.

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