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  • #31
    Woodworkerjake: I agree,,,,my point was that nothing out there is perfect. I have no problem understanding that your PM is a better saw than my Ridgid. The question is, is it $300 better for what I'm going to use it for? Answer: I don't know because I've never used one.

    One thing I can comment on is miter saws. I bought a Crapsman profesional a few months back. Took me about a half hour to get everything squared up but once I did it cut pretty good. Ended up taking it back and getting a Dewalt anyway, and I can honestly say that the DW was dead on right out of the box. For $100 more I kind of expeded that. Still not sure if it was really worth it, but at least I have the piece of mind knowing I got the tool I wanted. I think when it really comes down to it, that's what is important. In other words, the Ridgid is a pretty nice saw, but if you have your doubts or your mind set on something else you will probably end up regreting it. Don't let a $100 sway your opinion,,,,get what you want and make some sawdust.

    Damn, I'm babbling and probably not making much sense. Bad day at work and one too many beers.

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    • #32
      Jake - hope all's well and dust a flyin' over there!

      WoodCraft here has only PM -Jet-a few items from Delta of course to keep it "up and up" -DW planer-JDS AF and all those other carry-out items that leave my checkbook feelin' thin

      Wish they had a GI and Bridgwood and Grizzly. Make me smile for sure.

      On Grizz 0444z - I had to look to catalog to see what I could find and what I see is listed on page 14 --- 79" rails and legs for $139.95. A little different than what General charges for the upcharge on theirs ($649 to $729 currently. This is swap out. Since this is seperate part # I assume it's available to anyone and therefore does not entail a swap out - just the new rails and legs. Think these fit every contractor saw they've made as number same as 2003 catalog which was 1022 cs. Do they give credit - offer discount for swap? -I dunno.

      Also not sure if/how many of these things they even sell - 57" rails standard with 30" rip is more than most ever use anyway - cutting up full ply sheets = PITA to lift. Nice to have ability to do it but if I only cut 20-30 sheets a year I sure wouldn't bother. Just rough size on horses or cutting table and then finish. All done - fold up the horses and TAKE BACK the shop

      Chip - it came with the standards - but another long box came from Grizz on Tuesday. She had not opened-to heavy to lift. I'll wager it's big rails. If so - not sure what will be outcome as he's not into this woodmaking like his dad was. Not even sure long term status of shop,etc.
      If one see's the size of the standard 57"s and used to smaller saw - they seem real big from git-go.

      Lorax - Yeah I also noticed they reference the "precision ground" table/wings a couple of times in ad in catalog. I will say they look mighty nice at that. All those hooks and holes forblades, accessories is nice touch too. I'd not use for blades tho-knock a tooth off for sure the way we toss stuff around shop. But other things - it would work.

      I did note the sliding table is not listed specifically for this saw and just the big cabinets. Option later? Not sure if ever one even offered on a contractor from them. Probably sell a pittance at best anyway.

      And Greenhorn - you correct. The Rigid (most it seems) come out very nice with not much needed in way of major adjustments, etc. At least no more than most and we expect to have to do some as freight carriers pretty hard on things. And these forums all attest to the fact that it's a given and nothing is perfect with any of 'em at that for sure.The 3650 - it's a good saw - and made all the better when you caught a sales price. Ya done good!

      Getting ready to head out couple hours ago - nice think ice/snow sheet all around again. Fire up the 150 and start to move....what the h$#k am I on??? Nothing - a stinking flat on new Dueler AT's. Not a way to start the day

      [ 02-20-2004, 09:08 AM: Message edited by: Cranky ]
      Wish I had the answers ..... even half of \'em

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      • #33
        Greenhorn - we all make decisions for different reasons. I bought more saw than I needed initially b/c my first saw was such a POS. It had a dual locking fence taht I could never get squared. To the point I didn't even want to use it b/c I was just wasting wood in some cases.

        When I was looking at new saw My main focus was fence fence fence... I'm sure you can see why. Right or wrong b/c of my experience, I ruled out anything with dual lock. I never used one of the jet fences or Delta's standard. But they seemed a lil flimsy. My mind was made up when I went to woodcraft and actually saw Bies. It was exactly what I was looking for and has performed the way I wanted it to. Set it and forget it.

        Is it 300 dollars more value. What is. Everything's perception. But for me it's well worth it. For others who knows. If I hadn't had such a bad experience with my first saw, I'd have probably gone with less too. My first saw was a POS handme down. My mother said she was sorry I took it I complained about it so much. I told her I was glad I got it b/c it opened my mind up a bit as to what I wanted and needed.

        I'm happy, if you're happy, all is good. My intent is to get the newbies to explore all options before they buy. Some may not want a bies. Some like me may see one and want one for the same reason as I did. Try to be an objective 3rd party.

        I do push the long rails a little bit though if a person's on the fence and has the space. I was talked into mine and greatly appreciative of the salesperson who helped me make that decision. Makes woodworking more enjoyable for me. Use them all the time. Heck used them 2 days ago to rip 48 inches on crosscut sled. =)

        Jake

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        • #34
          Originally posted by woodworkerjake:


          I'm happy, if you're happy, all is good. My intent is to get the newbies to explore all options before they buy. Some may not want a bies. Some like me may see one and want one for the same reason as I did. Try to be an objective 3rd party.

          Jake,
          Well said ! ! [img]smile.gif[/img]
          Lorax
          "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

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          • #35
            Question for Jake - what size rails did you get on that Powermatic of yours? I thought they were 50" units?

            Sorry - I had not thought or remembered I could do a search here. If you beat me to it - let me know.

            Cross-cut sled is the safest method to use. Happy to hear that you use one.

            Comment


            • #36
              Grizzly does have the ability to convert to 110, but then it's at 24 volts

              50" rip for $139 includes legs, they're not included on the GI. $35 shipping No swap out option from what I've read.

              Ridgid saw is great IMO. 36" capacity is great, bigger than most saws out there but not too big. Mobile base is a huge plus, the herculift is second to none unless you don't want convenience The best dust collection out there for a contractor saw in the price range. Local pickup. Key locking safety switch (a big deal when you've got kids). Fence isn't top of the line, but it works fine. All around great saw.

              Having said that, for full price it's a tough, tough call. That Grizzly 0444Z will be tough to beat.

              Marcus

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              • #37
                Chipmaker,

                50 " rails as in RIP CAPACITY. Powermatic / Jet / most other companies measure by rip capacity. Grizzly likes to use other language. I guess it'd be 80 or 90 something by their standards.. LOL. Grizzly used to confuse me for quite some time til somebody pointed out to me what was going on there.

                Jake

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                • #38
                  Jake - Gotta agree with Lorax....your statement is more profound that some may think.
                  I'm happy, if you're happy, all is good. My intent is to get the newbies to explore all options before they buy.
                  For most, once the purchase is made, there's not alot of chance of undoing what's done. Far better to learn first, then make an informed decision. When it's a first TS or an upgrade from a benchtop EVERYTHING looks better than what we had, so get acclimated to the bigger picture and develop a good reference for the league of "better" saws before you buy one. Most are likely to live with that decision for years/decades...

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by woodworkerjake:
                    Chipmaker,

                    50 " rails as in RIP CAPACITY. Powermatic / Jet / most other companies measure by rip capacity. Grizzly likes to use other language. I guess it'd be 80 or 90 something by their standards.. LOL. Grizzly used to confuse me for quite some time til somebody pointed out to me what was going on there.

                    Jake
                    Jake: Unless everything has recently changed I am perplexed by statement above. Most companies use or reference the rail lengths and then the cutting capicity to appropriate side of blade. This to me makes sense and is easily understood without having to revert to a companies website to actually see and get overall dimensions which is what most are concerned with. If I was for example order the below saw based on what PM calls the "50" fence" and I had only a 7' area to work with I would recive it and be forced to return it - it would not fit.

                    If one looks at most web sites for companies one see's what I reference - rail sizes listed along with cutting capacity left and right. If I am to old school to not want to learn "PMiese" I apologise here and now. I obviously have not purchased a PM saw or I admit this would be a non-factor and understood but I have not so I find they are the confusing one at that. When I have used the PM66 in past the individuals owning have also only referenced what the cutting capacity is and knew rail sizes so that was the "lingo" we used.
                    Not defending Grizzly or Delta or General or whomever - I do understand what they say though when they say it. Rail size and cutting capacity. I have the dimensions I need to know to understand and decide.
                    But a "50" fence" as listed - I need to really ask many extra questions to get the simple answer I want. This saw does NOT have a 50" fence - the actual fence remains identical to the 30" - the rails have changed. So why is it called what it is? It's inaccurate to state as such and very misguided per se.

                    http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/PMWood/T...lesaw/64A.html

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                    • #40
                      Jake: regarding below question you posted on woodnet - I will email a friend and have him send to you the pictures as he just put one on.

                      Sorry I did not include in above post - it was already long and I worried this would get lost in the middle of it.

                      This is getting to be an expensive little habit for you already also I see. Tool and wood addiction is very hard to break.

                      It would be so nice if they came with everything already built-in. And less costly. You understand the need to create jobs and for others to eat is important also I guess

                      http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthr...lapsed&sb=5&o=

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                      • #41
                        Jake: I wasn't trying to say anything bad about your saw,,,sorry if it seemed that way. Until today, I'd never even seen a Bies fence. Tried one out at Ace Hardware this morning and I must say, I think I'm in love. Maybe someday I'll upgrade my Ridgid fence with one, but for now, I'm satisfied (a little less now though) with what I have. I'm sure you are too and that's what is important. If not though, I would trade you even up just so you could be happy. lol

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                        • #42
                          Green,

                          Thanks for the apology, never took it in bad nature. I learned awhile back that these posts sometimes can get read out of context. I just take it from the approach that most folks are trying to help each other out. The ones that are apparently bad apples, I try to ignore.

                          Jake

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                          • #43
                            Greenhorn - Wow, Ace Hardware has TS with Biese fences?! Geesh the AH's in this area are mom n pop dives where you'd be lucky to find a circular saw or TS blade, let alone one with a real saw around.

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                            • #44
                              Yeah, I couldn't believe it either. I went there this morning just to see what they had for router bits and the 1st things I saw when I walked into the tool department were a bunch of X5 Delta machines. They seemed a bit pricy but I sure would have liked to take home a couple of them. I couldn't really play with the Bies much because they had some stuff stacked on top of the saw, but I could definately tell it was top of the line.

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                              • #45
                                Greenhorn. X5 is Delta's top of the line saw. I think they have another model that is very close to the same line w/o 5 year warranty for a bit less.

                                I THINK...

                                Jake

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