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  • SawStop On Everything

    Might be dependent on who's getting the $$$$ at the vote.

    Table Saw Hazards Spur Regulator to Consider Tougher Safety Rules | FairWarning

    We'll see.


    J.C.

  • #2
    Re: SawStop On Everything

    Its all about making money, not safety. Saw$top is using every angle they can to force their technology down your throat.
    They want the CPSC to adopt their technology alone rather than allow alternative technologies to be offered by other manufacturers.

    Making table saws safer if fine. Forcing users to use Saw$top is wrong.

    In almost every case its the USERS fault that they got injured, not the fault of the saw.
    It's not the saws fault that the guard was not used.

    If Saw$top is forced upon us then a precedent is set to allow anything deemed better or good for you by the government will be forced upon you.
    Lets add auto-coupling seat belts to cars. How about lawn mowers that won't start unless you're wearing hearing protection? Who knows where they will invade your privacy or individual rights next.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SawStop On Everything

      I don't know about anyone else but I'm sick of Saw Stop's refusal to let this so called issue die a natural death. The powers that be seem unwilling to inform Saw Stop what most of us want them too do so I'll do it............Saw Stop, please take your ball and go home!
      Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: SawStop On Everything

        I seem to remember that a saw$top failed about a year ago during a demo and cut through the hot dog.

        When a saw$top fails in real life (not an operator error but a product failure), I hope that there is a MASSIVE lawsuit including the regulators that cram it down our throats.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: SawStop On Everything

          I'm going to buck the trend here. I think it's a great technology. The more tools have a similar feature the better. A bit like ABS on a car.

          I wouldn't agree with forcing its use while it is proprietary, but as an option, I don't see how it's a bad thing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: SawStop On Everything

            It's a common tactic for a company to get their technology/IP incorporated by regulation. The problem is not Sawstop, it's a Gov't that thinks that it's their job to make everything safe and thus makes such actions viable. Which in turn is due to a society that looks to Gov't to solve all their problems, and accepts their meddling, instead of each member taking personal responsibility for their own well-being.

            Sawstop is freely available in the marketplace. Anyone that wants one can buy it. Anyone that doesn't want one doesn't have to buy it. Estimates are that incorporation will add between $100 and $300 to each table saw. That may not matter to the Powermatic and Unisaw buyer, but it certainly will matter to the low-end homeowner or contractor grade saw.

            The Constitution is reasonably clear about the role of Federal Government. Regulating safety of consumer products isn't on the list (Article 1 Section 8). Nor is health care, motorcycle helmet laws, or probably 80% of the nonsense that Washington pursues... which they pursue, btw, on your nickel.
            Last edited by Andy_M; 06-24-2011, 11:03 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: SawStop On Everything

              Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
              I'm going to buck the trend here. I think it's a great technology. The more tools have a similar feature the better. A bit like ABS on a car.

              I wouldn't agree with forcing its use while it is proprietary, but as an option, I don't see how it's a bad thing.

              Yes, it is a great piece of technology. I don't think anyone disputes that, nor that it can mitigate many injuries due to carelessness or disrespect for or a total lack of safety in a workplace. But as long as its proprietary and one man stands to profit from it and lobbies to have in forced on the population that is what is wrong. As Andy said, the technology is available to anyone who wants to avail themselves of it, just buy a Saw$top saw. You can get the Saw$top pro, which is a contractor style saw IIRC, for over roughly $1500. Or you can go all out and get the cabinet saw for ~$3300 or there-abouts.

              I've noticed that many WWing shows now feature Saw$top saws, probably because they give them the saw to use. That way we get to see our favorite Woodworker using the Saw$top and some will equate this to approval by them.
              ---------------
              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
              ---------------
              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
              ---------
              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
              ---------
              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: SawStop On Everything

                Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                I've noticed that many WWing shows now feature Saw$top saws, probably because they give them the saw to use. That way we get to see our favorite Woodworker using the Saw$top and some will equate this to approval by them.
                Norm did that for years. Does that mean he recommends the tool in his hand, or does that mean he's being paid to use it?

                Getting your technology incorporated into the specs is not restricted to tools. It's in pretty much any regulated business. Anyone remember crossply tires?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: SawStop On Everything

                  Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                  Getting your technology incorporated into the specs is not restricted to tools. It's in pretty much any regulated business. Anyone remember crossply tires?
                  Bias ply (cross-ply) tires are not mainstream today, not because they were regulated against, but because the advantages of radial tires (many of which still run the plies at a slight angle) caused the market to prefer the radial type. That's the point here... let the market decide what it wants.

                  You can still buy DOT-approved street legal bias ply tires. There is no regulation prohibiting their manufacture, sale or use.

                  I disagree with Bob D. on one point, though. To me it is irrelevant that the technology is proprietary. It is equally wrong for Government to manipulate the market whether the patents are in-force or not. The creeping reach of government, to me, is the issue. As I understand it, isn't this still supposed to be the land of the free?

                  What's next? Routers with sawstop devices? Ladders no more than 4 feet high? Will every shoe need steel toes? I think it's all insane.
                  Last edited by Andy_M; 06-24-2011, 12:41 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: SawStop On Everything

                    Originally posted by Roadster280 View Post
                    Norm did that for years. Does that mean he recommends the tool in his hand, or does that mean he's being paid to use it?

                    Getting your technology incorporated into the specs is not restricted to tools. It's in pretty much any regulated business. Anyone remember crossply tires?
                    No, and that was my point. Norm and others like him are employees, that I would expect, don't have full control over what brand tools get used on their shows. Look at TOH and its variants. It looks like last year Delta/PC was dropped or decided themselves to no longer fund TOH so now Stanley/Bostich has taken up the cause, and overnight the majority of the tools are Bostich mustard yellow color or Stanley.

                    As I said, some viewers will equate this with approval of the tool. Meaning if you see Tom Silva or Tommy Mac, or anybody else using a particular tool it doesn't mean that's what they prefer, it's what's keeping the show afloat so they do as they're told and use it.

                    But many people fail to see it as you and I do. They just see the tool in their hand and that is what assume is the best because they saw it being used on TV.
                    Last edited by Bob D.; 06-27-2011, 04:24 PM.
                    ---------------
                    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                    ---------------
                    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                    ---------
                    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                    ---------
                    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: SawStop On Everything

                      I liked it when Norm would pull out his own tools (even tho he had tape over the name of it) and use what he preferred,

                      I would like a new table saw, I would (I think like the saw stop technology or similar, would prefer a system that would not destroy the blade and new a new stop kit needed if activated, tho), as a true accident can happen, and would like to be protected if it did, but if given the choice of spending an extra $300 to $500 for the option, (unless it was in a school shop, or a business shop that had a number of employees using the saw, ) most likely I would not spend the money on it in my own shop,

                      but my guess is they some what create a false sense of security, allowing the operator to think they could take chances that should not be taken as the blade will stop if I screw up,

                      and I definitely do not want to see some thing like this mandated, (I personally do not think a lot of the mandates in place are any business of the Governments, but I do want to see people use common sense and proper safety practices,

                      seldom do I use a guard with a angle grinder as many times there as much in the way as there beneficial, but the other day some one wanted to use my grinder, I sent it out with the guard and a pair of safety goggles, (why for the liability issues), if they did manage to get hurt, at least I did what I could to "protect them".
                      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                      attributed to Samuel Johnson
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: SawStop On Everything

                        I used a 4.5" grinder once with a 1/32" cutting wheel in it. Had to get in a tight spot to clean up a weld for inspection and x-ray. I slipped and saw a flash of white as the grinder cut through the leather TIG gloves I was wearing. I kept grinding for another minute or so then stopped to take a break. When I pulled my glove off I noticed the cut in the back of my right hand ring finger and then looked at my finger and saw I had a nice clean cut about 1/16" wide and not too deep in the back of my finger. It never bled I guess because the wheel edge was so hot. I was left with a scar that after a dozen years finally went away but I always remember that I could have done much more serious damage to my finger that day. I was using the grinder w/o the guard and that required permission from the supervisor which I had. That didn't stop the wheel from gnawing on my finger that day though.
                        ---------------
                        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                        ---------------
                        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                        ---------
                        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                        ---------
                        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: SawStop On Everything

                          As Norm always said "and now a word about shop safety". Somewhere, someone will think it's ok to put a finger against a sawstop blade because it stopped for a hotdog. We'll read about that person on a future Darwin Award (deleting ignorance from the gene pool). I see the sawstop as giving a false sense of security.

                          I agree with the opinion that the gov't should butt out and sawstop should stop trying to force their product on the consumer.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: SawStop On Everything

                            Seems many are against making all manufacturers install SawStop or something similar on their saws but are fine for it to be offered as an option.

                            So let me ask.....Why not make all safety devices an option? Just sell an old-school-naked blade sticking through with no quick push shutdown, no grounding, no guard? Then offer the options for x amount.

                            The same? No?


                            J.C.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: SawStop On Everything

                              Same? Yes and No.

                              For me its more about the way that Saw$top has gone about forcing everyone to use their system than it is about mandating that manufacturers incorporate some equivalent safety technology. The way its going they will be forced to use Saw$top and pay royalties to Saw$top to use it.

                              What if you state government was to enact a law that was crafted such that only a certain few would qualify as plumbers, and everyone else had to work under their license? Would that be fair? You are certainly capable of performing the work on your own that meets the current code or standard, why should you be forced to work under another persons license? Future changes to the code you are certainly capable of interpreting and complying with, you don't need someone else to do that for you.

                              So why should all the manufacturers have to use Saw$top when they are perfectly capable of developing their own solution should the CPSC mandate changes.

                              I also think that the women who heads the CPSC has no inkling of what is entailed in operating a table saw safely, with or without Saw$top, and is just reacting to the hot dog video and thinking it is wondrous and why would anyone NOT want it?

                              As others have said; in an employer/employee relationship, or a school environment, and similar situations maybe it makes sense. But I the individual owner and operator of my own saw should not have this particular technology forced on me.

                              Mandate that all table saws built after some date must incorporate some safety feature that will stop the blade from spinning and retract it in x milliseconds, but to enact a law or make a ruling that everyone in the USA who buys a table saw MUST use Saw$top technology is WRONG.
                              ---------------
                              Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                              ---------------
                              “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                              ---------
                              "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                              ---------
                              sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                              Comment

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