Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Vacuum veneering

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Vacuum veneering

    this may have been discussed before, but the search feature is FUBAR and I don't even bother with it anymore.

    Has anyone tried using those vacuum clothes storage bags for vacuum veneering? I know the bags are not as heavy (thick) as those sold for woodworking but they are 1/4 the price or less.

    Anyway, the LOML bought a set of four very large bags at BBB. The smallest is 26.5 x 39", the larger bag is 35 x 48". She got two of each for $29. They're meant for squishing blankets or quilts to reduce storage space.

    Well, I talked her out of one and am running a test right now in the shop gluing a scrap piece of 1/4" underlayment to a piece of 3/4" MDF.

    I first tried it dry using a piece of that waffle pattern shelf liner to wrap the pieces.
    This was done :
    1. to cushion the bag from the sharp edges of the wood
    2. to allow for a more even pressure distribution across the panels which are each about 16" square.
    I pulled a vacuum with my shop vac for only about 10 seconds then sealed the bag which is easily done with the one way valve on the bag.

    I could not budge the pieces once I had pulled the vacuum on the bag even though I had purposefully misaligned them by a half inch so I would be able to slide them, but it didn't work, I could not move them at all.

    The piece sizes are just what I had hanging around, their size is of no importance to me.


    So I spread some glue on both pieces and put them back in the bag.
    Tomorrow I will see how well it worked.

    I will cut the assembly in half so I can judge how well pressure was applied in the center of the panel.

    Photos to follow.

    Has anyone else tried this and if yes how well did it work??
    "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

  • #2
    Re: Vacuum veneering

    Wow, no comments, amazing.

    Anyway, here's what I found when I checked on my test glue up this afternoon.
    The bag was still sealed tight and though I did not have a gauge on it to monitor
    it does not appear to have lost much if any vacuum in the past 20 hours.

    After opening the bag I checked and did not see any voids in the glue up (third and fourth photos).
    The last photo is after I cut the square into thirds and then stacked the interior edges so you could
    see how well it bonded in the center. Looks good to me but may be tough to judge in the photos.
    I tried to separate them using a chisel but could not, they are joined as tight as if I had clamped
    them in some heavy duty clamps, but I did not use even one clamp!

    Name:  03cc17ad2002bdf1f963ab02b2d1a798.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  219.0 KBName:  64b257be6b030eb51e367671a53682d2.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  259.6 KBName:  ba90369a8a6e1c6f555771a479685272.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  91.8 KBName:  d9a977fca6bfaaf3a802e6c0f80769ac.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  100.3 KBName:  08cfb6d4fb64273b84634634238f0895.jpg
Views: 1
Size:  93.7 KB

    I will use this method when I need to glue up a large panel of this type. It certainly beats the price they ask for those
    special woodworking glue bags, the pump, etc.

    For $29 you get four bags, two large size which is the one you see in the photos, and two even bigger ones.
    You can barely buy one decent clamp for that money, and for a small panel like this you would need at least 6 I would think.
    If you were to buy a woodworking vacuum bag this size it would certaintly cost quite a bit more. The bags are considerably
    thicker at 20 mils yes, but if vacuum veneering is something you do infrequently or you want to give it a try without betting
    the farm the SpaceBags might be worth a try. The SpaceBags are 2.75 mils thick.
    Last edited by Bob D.; 07-28-2011, 05:05 PM. Reason: added link
    "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Vacuum veneering

      never done any type of vacuum clamping, read some about it but never tried it thanks for the pictures and the thread,
      Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
      attributed to Samuel Johnson
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vacuum veneering

        Thank you. Very interesting.

        I have a couple of questions.

        Did you use a cold press glue or a standard wood glue?
        Are the marks on picture 15449 indents? Could you sand them out of a thin veneer?
        How did you gauge how much pressure was being applied? Glue squeeze out?

        You have me intrigued. Guess I'll be looking for those 20% off BBB Coupons and doing some experiments.

        Thanks again.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Vacuum veneering

          Originally posted by cjh20 View Post
          Thank you. Very interesting.

          I have a couple of questions.

          Did you use a cold press glue or a standard wood glue?
          Are the marks on picture 15449 indents? Could you sand them out of a thin veneer?
          How did you gauge how much pressure was being applied? Glue squeeze out?

          You have me intrigued. Guess I'll be looking for those 20% off BBB Coupons and doing some experiments.

          Thanks again.
          I used Titebond III, its what I had on hand for the experiment.

          The marks are from the pad I used to cushion the bag, they are surface only and sand right out with minimal effort.

          didn't/couldn't measure how much vacuum was drawn, I just used my Festool shop vac for about 10-15 seconds. The bag
          was compressed in the first couple seconds. I kept the vacuum on for a few seconds more for good measure.

          I have a vacuum pump that will get way down low, but I didn't bother hooking it up for this test. That would be the one
          downside to using these space saver bags, the connection is sized to use a household vacuum cleaner to compress the bag.
          A regular heavy duty bag for woodworking has a smaller connection meant to use with some poly tubing. I could easily make
          up an adapter, but if the shop vac works why bother?

          Vac-U-Clamp Frame Presses Bags Pumps Hold Downs Track Systems - Vacuum Powered Tools - Laminating and Forming of Veneers
          "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
          John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vacuum veneering

            I did a little searching this morning and found others have tried this with mixed results.
            Some say don't even bother trying to use the space bags and others say they work but
            are of course not as heavy duty for repeated use the 20 mil bags are which I think everyone
            will agree. I pointed this out in the beginning and was only suggesting the space bags as a
            trial or for limited use. They did work for me in my one test to date. Based on that I would
            not be afraid to try it on a project but if it were a high value project I might think twice unless
            I had a string of successes behind me.

            Anyway, here's a blog with some information on gluing up laminated chair backs that I came across.
            :: LAMINATING A CHAIR BACK
            "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
            John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

            Comment

            Working...
            X