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  • My lids have flipped...well cupped.

    These box lids that I built last summer in Minnesota have cupped over the past couple months here in Denver.

    Second Wind Workshop: Upended
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    Pete
    My Blog - Second Wind Workshop
    http://secondwindworkshop.blogspot.com/

  • #2
    Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

    Could it be that there was too much moisture in the wood used to make the lids when you were building them? Do you remember if you checked for that?
    Teach your kids about taxes..........eat 30 percent of their ice cream.

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    • #3
      Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

      Welcome to challenges of "solid wood movement"...

      The moisture content of wood is so varied, depending on where you buy it, that it is sometimes alarming as to the changes that take effect over just a few months.

      The source of the wood product is also a challenge, especially if you've made the purchase from a local "big box store" or one of the everyday lumber yards. I've seen what appeared to be "pretty nice" stock, that once ripped through the table saw, have thinner pieces curve like the stuff was cut from a branch under stress.

      Here in NY State, the humidity swings wildly and I've learned that I need to be not only selective, but also to buy the stock well ahead of time and let it "acclimate" in the shop for a couple of months. Otherwise things twist, bend, warp, and shrink.

      I would agree with BadgerDave, as I think a moisture meter is really a necessity in today's market.

      CWS

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      • #4
        Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

        Hope this info helps you and others.

        In 2005 I remodeled a condo I owned so that we could resell it. Part of that remodel was a custom kitchen that I designed myself. Instead of the traditional tile or granite counter tops I opted to make butcher block tops. I purchased birch, that had a specific moisture content suitable for assembly into butcher block. I have worked with wood in the past but its not something I do on a regular basis, and I had certainly never attempted to build a counter top like this.

        Two weeks after I had installed the counters they warped. The following is a picture of what happened. The weather conditions that caused this was a dry hot wind that in Southern California is called a 'Santa Ana Wind'.

        Click to enlarge it:

        Attachment
        The counter you are looking at is 10' long and 36" wide. The entire length of it warped. To the left of this picture and in the back which is not visible is another 'L' counter in which the same thing happened. I spent two weeks trying to get an answer from experts in cabinet making local to our area. No one had a definitive answer. We all agreed that is was a moisture issue, but no one had a resolution to the problem. Just prior to ripping all this work out I decided to take a more scientific approach and use deductive reasoning, engineering etc... approach to solving this. I went back to were I got the wood and actually acquired the moisture content data sheets from the mill that produced the wood. It was all within specs. I then looked at how I build the counters. All within the proper tolerances. The final aspect was the finishing of the wood, and that's when it dawned on me.

        Prior to installation I used a marine varnish to finish the underside of the counters. (This condo was two miles from the ocean) I figured it would be a good precautionary measure to keep the wood from absorbing moisture. Once the counters were installed I used a food grade oil designed to be used on butcher block to finish the top. I think I finished it with around 10 coats over a two week period.

        The resolve to the problem was both simple and a pain in the ars..... First I pulled the counters off, (thank God I did not glue them down), and flipped them over. I used a belt sander and took off all the marine varnish. Once that was done, I did one coat of the FDA butcher block sealer on the bottom. Reinstalled the counters, and within two weeks they had laid down flat again.

        After looking at your picture, and your description of where they were made and were they are now explains the warp. Denver is an extremely dry climate, High Desert Zone. The moisture trapped in the wood cannot escape because of the finish, so unfortunately you got the warp. The only solution is to remove the finish, let the wood acclimate to the climate and then refinish, or redo the lids with wood from the area. Don't dispare. Here is the kitchen prior to the sale;

        Attachment
        Attached Files
        Last edited by Watersurgeon; 02-03-2012, 07:19 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

          Welcome to the great American Desert, they just dried out, or dried unevenly,
          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
          attributed to Samuel Johnson
          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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          • #6
            Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

            Thanks guys! Good thoughts. The boxes and lids received a hand rubbed oil finish...tops and bottoms, inside and out. One thing in particular though, the lids had a snug, slip-fit onto the boxes, so with just an oil finish I'm thinking the top dried out quicker than the bottom, especially here in Denver. They've been on a shelf in my office at work, so the lids are rarely removed. I'll leave the lids off for a while and see if they don't flatten back out again. If not, I may have to look at doing a light sanding as well.
            Pete
            My Blog - Second Wind Workshop
            http://secondwindworkshop.blogspot.com/

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            • #7
              Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

              It looks like there two different woods as well that may be a contributing factor, working like a bi metal thermometer, but in this instance it may be more like a hygrometer,
              Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
              attributed to Samuel Johnson
              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
              PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

                WaterSurgeon,

                Thanks for the very informative post. I enjoyed the "education" and at the same time sympathized with your challenge... very nice job, and on first seeing the warpage, I'm afraid I would have been beside myself. I'm happy to hear and see the end result of your effort.

                Thanks again,

                CWS

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                • #9
                  Re: My lids have flipped...well cupped.

                  Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                  WaterSurgeon,

                  Thanks for the very informative post. I enjoyed the "education" and at the same time sympathized with your challenge... very nice job, and on first seeing the warps, I'm afraid I would have been beside myself. I'm happy to hear and see the end result of your effort.

                  Thanks again,CWS
                  Thanks. What makes the story even more frustrating was the fact that I did not notice the issue for a about a week. I was working in the Condo on a daily basis and paid no attention to it. What made me see the issue was coming down a ladder from the attic that I had been working in. As I was climbing down I just happened to glance to my left and saw the curvature of the top. All I could say was WTF just happened.

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