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  • 220 and TS3612

    Can anyone cite any significant differences in wiring this saw for 220 as opposed to 110? I reviewed the manual on this site and it doesn't indicate an increase in power so I wanted to know any other reasons and / or differences before undertaking running wire.

    Thanks in advance for the help.
    Patrick<br />patrickssmith@cox.net<br />members.cox.net/patrickssmith

  • #2
    Pssmith,

    Changing the voltage to 240 will not provide any more horsepower nor does it save any power usage. What it does do is more appropiately size the circuit to the amp draw. At 120V the saw draws 13 amps under normal load, which is just short of the maximum rating for a normal 15 amp house circuit. That means you may be seeing a signifigant voltage drop in the circuit, depending on the length, size and condition of the circuit. Lower than normal voltage can be hard of induction motors, causing them to run hotter and in turn shorten the motors life.

    With 220V the saw is only drawing about 6.5 amps at normal load. For most 220V circuts, this mean the amp draw is no where near the circuts rated spec. This also means there is much less voltage drop. You motor runs cooler, has a faster spool up time and should last longer.

    Jake

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    • #3
      Everything that Jake said, and my lights no longer dim when the TS is first switched on!

      David

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      • #4
        Has anyone actually done this? Is it difficult to do? I am curious, because I also now own a TS3612, and once in a while I blow one of my breakers at the circuit board. Ths never happened before.

        I don't know much about elecricity or wiring. Is this something I could do myself, with the help of a how-to book?

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        • #5
          Matthew,

          First, you DEFINITELY don't want your lights going out in the middle of a cut. A spinning saw blade is no fun in the dark.

          I would say if you know nothing about electrical wiring, have a qualified electrician put in the 220V outlet for you. As far as rewiring the saw motor, the instructions are in the owners manual for how to do that.

          I am considering the same thing myself, but I might wait just because I have plenty of outlets on separate circuits in my workshop. I don't have a problem with tripping the breakers as long as I am careful of which outlets I'm using. Since the TS3612 is mobile, that's not really a problem because I can just move it to any outlet I want.

          You might try to find out if your workshop outlets are different breakers. That may solve your problem. Of course, converting to 220V does have its advantages (see Jake's post above).

          Kevin

          [ 03-04-2003, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: kbrandon ]

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          • #6
            Just to add one thing that some people do not know including myself up to a few months ago on 220 the table saw will draw 6.5 times 2 because it takes 6.5 from 2 110.

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            • #7
              The post above (ViperGTSCU) is not correct if I understand what they are trying to say. Wired at 220 V, the saw will draw 6.5 A total, not 6.5 times 2. Basic electrical equations (for single-phase) are 1) power=voltage*amps*efficiency and 2) voltagedrop=amps*resistance. Resistance in the circuits in your house comes nearly entirely from the appliances you plug in, not the wires in the walls. This is why it is important to rewire your motor before plugging into 220V. From Equation 2, doubling the voltage doubles the amps unless you change the resistance (burnt out motor). Equation 1 should be important for any woodworker. Since motor efficiency should be similar for all major brands, you can compare motor power by getting amp ratings. It was important for me when specing out drill presses. Both the Ridgid and Craftsman had 8 amp motors yet the craftsman declared twice the horsepower. Knowing the the physics said that power equals voltage (110V) time amps (same for both), the Craftsman couldn't be twice as powerful. Checked with Jake and they were of similar power.

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              • #8
                Rmacmec is correct concerning amperage draw, 6.5 amps (total) when wired for 220 volts.

                Woodslayer

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                • #9
                  Resistance in the circuits in your house comes nearly entirely from the appliances you plug in, not the wires in the walls.
                  That is not correct. Wire is wire, wherever the distance is is where the resistance is. If you use 12 gauge house wire, and 12 gauge service cord, the electricity cannot tell the difference based on which side of the outlet it is on.

                  This is why it is important to rewire your motor before plugging into 220V.
                  Lost me on this one. You must reconnect the internal jumpers on the motor because otherwise it is not set up to run on 220v (and it won't).
                  If you meant that the service cord has to be changed when moving from 110v to 220v, it doesn't. Since the amperage goes down, the existing wire is more than adequate. It could be downsized if desired. The plug -must- be replaced, of course.

                  From Equation 2, doubling the voltage doubles the amps unless you change the resistance
                  You need to change one of the "doubles" to "halves" in the above excerpt. If you double the voltage, you halve the amperage.

                  Dave

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                  • #10
                    Dave,

                    You are the man
                    <a href=\"http://photos.yahoo.com/rixworx\" target=\"_blank\">http://photos.yahoo.com/rixworx</a>

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                    • #11
                      it toook me five minutes to rewire mine (2424) for 220...I'm far from an electrician, it's very easy!
                      Kelly C. Hanna<br /><a href=\"http://www.hannawoodworks.com\" target=\"_blank\">Hanna Woodworks</a>

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                      • #12
                        Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have charts or electrical constants in front of me to check on the first point and admittedly am not an expert...

                        What I meant about the wires was this... the voltage drop across 100 feet of 12 gauge wire is negligible when compared to the voltage drop across the motor in your saw. I believe this is correct; though I don’t have the electrical resistance of copper and diameter of 12 gauge wire in front of me

                        Rewiring the jumpers inside the motor for 220 V effectively increases the motor’s electrical resistance, allowing one to keep the same power at higher voltage and fewer amps. Yes, I am aware this is extremely simplified but for the purposes of the layman woodworker, it is enough.

                        If you double the voltage and keep the resistance the same the amps will double. This is fundamentally why you rewire the jumpers, so the amps halve and power stays constant.

                        The purpose of my post was only to try and shed a little knowledge that the basic person could use. Admittedly, I have much more experience with linear single-phase motors for research purposes.

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                        • #13
                          It isn't the resistance that is the issue, it is the counter electromotive force - motors and generators are basically the same, so we are counting on the magnetic effects that generate an opposing voltage, not the resistance of the wire, that controls the current flow.

                          The power sunk into the motor is the voltage times the current (times the power factor, but let's ignore that part). Some of the power goes to heat - that is the current times the voltage drop due to the resistance, which is I*V or I * I * R - the heat is proportional to the square of the current. The other part is the useful work, which is the same whether 110 or 220 volts, so at 220 volts the current is half. If we can cut the current in half, it helps us on the heat loss part. Of course, there has to be enough insulation to handle twice the voltage, even though the current is less. Ordinary power cords are fine.

                          Boy I wish Dave Arbuckle were answering this one - he explains things better!

                          Also if you are overseas, where they use 230-240 volts for everything, notice how much smaller their electric cords are on things like vacuum cleaners and irons!

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                          • #14
                            Rmacmec wrote Dave, correct me if I'm wrong

                            Based on your further post, I think you were perhaps more misleading than wrong.

                            Going back and reading it as primarily theoretical commentary, I revoke commentary "not correct", and insert "perhaps not relevant to most woodworkers" in it's place.

                            Dave meandering.........
                            The things I've seen where people drove off a cliff, so to speak.

                            - Try to run a dual voltage motor on 220, when it's jumpered for 110. Predictably dismal result.

                            - Try to run a dual voltage motor on 110 when it's jumpered for 220, and not shut it off promptly when it doesn't start right. Similiarly dismal result.

                            - RUN ON TOO SMALL WIRE!!!! Apologies for all caps. This is a major problem, people toast motors with depressing frequency this way. I've seen commentary that goes too far the other way, "never use an extension cord". That's booshwa, because all wiring (after the power co's transformer, at least) is "extension". What is important for woodworkers to do is use their machines with amply sized cords.

                            I just started to write a treatise that described how too small wire affects a motor. It went on forever, and I'm not sure anyone would really care. What it comes down to is, too small wire will kill a motor.

                            rmacmec, here's the resistance for copper wire gauge, in ohms per thousand feet. Note that it is not linear.
                            16 - 4.016
                            14 - 2.525
                            12 - 1.588
                            10 - 0.999

                            Dave

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                            • #15
                              In response to the post above about a 220 6.5 amp line being 6.5 total and not 6.5x2. Can someone please explain this to me? If the total draw was only 6.5 amps, then that would be about 3 amps on each leg which is only a quarter of what it was at 110v.

                              Also, if my understanding is correct, (based on what I learned in the past)one would run 220 because motors that draw 15 or more amps usually require bigger wire, the motor will start faster, and recovery would be faster due to the lower amp draw at initial start up. Am I correct in tating this?

                              Mike

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