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  • #31
    You have to understand (or at least, I hope you understand), we don't know you. I've participated actively in woodworking forums for I guess about 3 1/2 years. In that time, I've seen some ideas proposed that were frankly daft, things that simply won't work in the long term (sometimes in the short term for that matter).

    If I react when I see a concept that can be done wrong, that's why. It isn't anything personal. You obviously have a track record that shows you can pull this idea off. I just didn't know that, you know?

    All that to say, no offense intended. Go get 'em!

    Dave

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    • #32
      After re-reading all the posts in this line, i think i understand you guys feared i would try to "make plywood" panels from hardwood. Lord no, i would not even consider that. I see that one guy did that or something like that with the maple. Hats off to him, he is a hard worker for sure. When i read the stuff about racking, and grasped the concept, i could see the future and it could have been me. I got to thinking about the things that could go wrong. It hit me, best thing for me to do is to make a frame, like the old cabinets i have now. Then just attach everything to them. I drove back to the cabinet shop my buddy has, guy i grew up with. He basically builds a nice hardwood front and sticks it onto a plywood/particle board box, similar to what you guys talk about. He of course swears by this, has a zillion clamps and fixtures to fit the cabinets boxes up to as he makes them.
      i have a lot of respect for that process, it enables you to make them just fine. But to be honest, murphys law would surely get me if i tried that. I think i would blow it.
      what i propose is much simpler. if i get the frames right, i cannot mess up after that. My buddy uses a pocket jointer, and joins all the hardwood pieces for the front of his cabinets and fastens them to the particle board boxes he builds. I will do about the same thing, but fasten them to the frame i built first. I do plan to use drawers for the lower cabinets, instead of doors; Necessitating more framing members in the horizontal of course. The other difference is, i don't figure to use plywood for the exposed ends. You guys don't like this part i know. I would be wasting good hardwood. You worry i might get cracks or splits in the wood i place there. I am ok with that. If it messes up i will be surprised, but i could easily fix it if it did. There will not be much of that. Only the ends of the cabinets. My configuration will be short on ends, long on fronts.
      I note behind the drawers i won't need backs on the cabinets. They will butt a sheetrock wall in back, in my application. So simple when you think about it, using a frame makes it a lot simpler. Now the upper cabinets, i am uncertain how that will be done. I will build the lower sections first. I might have to use a lot of plywood in the uppers. Shelves and inside backs at least.
      If so, i will have to acquire better skills with this shop equipment i purchased, to make it work as a stressed member, plywood is something i have done very little with. This will be my bigger learning curve, if i have to go that route on the top.
      I have to study the hardware systems to figure out how to go about making them all come out. I see here where hardware nuances really make a huge difference. It will take me some time, but i will photo the stuff, scan it and show you if i can figure how to do that here. I see others do it so i guess i can too.

      thanks again; Hardly Workin
      If it won\'t fit you need a bigger hammer!

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      • #33
        I think all anyone is trying to do is to be helpful. I don't know why you're so intent on building this with frames (which will take up space inside the cabinets). Not that it might not work, but manufactured and custom cabinets rarely use this method. Properly designed plywood cabinets, with the right joints, glue, etc. are very strong.

        As to your use of cedar on the interriors----are you talking about aeromatic cedar, such as is used in cedar chests? Have never heard of this in a kitchen cabinet. But, would advise you stick some plates, glasses and some boxed food in your cedar chest for a few weeks. If the odor doesn't permiate the food or leave a smell to the dishes, I guess you'd be ok??!
        Dave

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        • #34
          glad to hear we helped. One more thing, if you plan on building your base cabinets and placing them in first.

          Most base cabinets are about 24 inches deep from front to back. most wall cabinets are 12 inches deep. It will bw much easier on your back, and arms if you build your wall cabinets first so you aren't constantly reaching over the 24 inch base cabinets.

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          • #35
            Mr. Hardly, I am somewhat new to woodworking as well, although I've done enough rough carpentry to not really spend much brain power on it anymore. But this Cabinetry stuff has really got me baffled as well. Just yesterday I was in Home Depot looking at cabinet designs, and wondering how/why they choose the carcass wood type. I've always felt the way you do, Solid Hardwood is the very best quality.
            After reading the many posts, I can understand why it might not be the best for practical reasons, but my feeling is that if I can work out a good design in spite of the problems, I will have a much better product, even if no-one ever sees the inside.
            Myabe I'll save solid hardwood projects for furniture and go ahead and use ply for cabinets, I suppose Ply is much better for this in truth. But I completely understand how you feel about it, I share that! The idea behind making your own stuff is that you can take your sweet time and make heirloom quality projects!
            Also from reading your many posts I tend to think that you are under estimating yourself. If you can lay some good hardwood flooring, I'd bet you can confidently construct your cabinet carcasses. Get some good corner clamps and bar clamps and give it a try. Heck, if you've got the time, you might even make yourself a test cabinet for the garage.
            Good Luck!

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            • #36
              The idea behind making your own stuff is that you can take your sweet time and make heirloom quality projects!

              That is true. However, very few people consider kitchen cabinets to be eligible for heirloom status. They are subject to fashion changes, new innovations (as in accomodating new types of appliances), and such. The average lifespan of kitchen cabinets is reported to be between 10 and 15 years, and rarely is the replacement due to failure. It's just the Operator of the Kitchen becoming tired of them in many cases.

              Dave

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              • #37
                Hey there hammerman, if i understand you correctly, it is best to hang the upper cabinets before i place the lower units? Now see i was thinkin before, it might be a good idea to sit the uppers on the counters of the lowerunits and then with my son's help, hoist them up and lag bolt them to the studs overhead as well as on the wall. I note the ones i have here now are bolted this way. When i actually get closer to that point, i will revisit these pages and ask more questions of course.
                I did receive the first 300 ft of my cherry lumber now. I will have my work cut out for me planing and so forth, for a while. I feel certain that will keep me busy for now.
                Thanks again for your help, i do appreciate the kind words.
                Hardly Workin
                If it won\'t fit you need a bigger hammer!

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                • #38
                  Dave, I have to agree with your philosophy on heirloom furniture. And since kitchen cabinets are in my case chosen by the wife, whose taste changes like her clothes do, at the very least I need to consider that point.

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                  • #39
                    It is really much easier to install the uppers first, otherwise you'll never get good mechanical advantage lifting them. You can either use a bottom cleat or a French cleat system to hang the uppers.

                    No question tastes change, and the most important taste is what the wife likes/wants. If you keep the design fairly traditional, you are likely to have less need to change----if you try to be too trendy------well, there are still people trying to figure out what to do with their alvacado refrigerators/stoves.
                    Dave

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                    • #40
                      Popular Woodworking has a (Sept. 03)current mag. on this subject. Furniture Building.
                      [img]smile.gif[/img]

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