Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dust collector or good shop vac?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dust collector or good shop vac?

    Hi folks,
    First post here. I have a small shop 18x22 with 80" ceiling on the first floor of my barn in Vermont. I do woodworking projects on weekends only if I have time. I have a Ridgid TS2400, Ridgid planner, Ryobi band saw, Ridgid sanding station, router table, bench drill press and various hand power tools. I also have a Ridgid air filter on the ceiling. Barn is heated by a propane shop heater. I have a ridgid vac 4050 (?) on the wall. I have reading alot about dust collection and want to add this to the shop. My ridgid vac is loud and is too small for big projects. I was looking at either a dust collection system from Penn State Industries or a Fein Turbo III vac. Fein vac is quite but I don't know anything about dust collection. I spoke to tech support at Penn State and they said go for cyclone system. I think it's overkill and expensive. Do dust collectors work like a vac? The Fein has an autostart and is portable enough to take in the house for projects. Filter bags on dust collection systems are 30 microns or you pay much more for better filtration. I am confused. What are you guys/gals doing. Is a dust collection system overkill for a weekend only shop? How are the bigger ridgid vacs? Are they too loud?

    Thanks for the help.


    Marty

  • #2
    Hi Marty - DC's will handle a much larger volume than a vac, and are much quieter. I started out using my Ridgid 1660 shop vac, but even that large bucket fills quickly, and as mentioned it's pretty loud...the filter also plugs up quickly. Save the SV for cleaning up after.

    A good 1-1/2hp DC should do fine. A cyclone is better but not essential. You can always upgrade to sub-5 micron filters later on if you don't find a deal now. The impeller size is as or more important than motor size, and take the stated CFM rating like a grain of salt...Penn State is one of the few that use realistic ratings. Most are overrated by about 2x! Expect an actual of about 800 CFM from a 12" impeller in a 1-1/2hp unit when hooked to a single machine. I'm not a huge fan of the HF unit, but it seems to work well enough and alot of people like it for the money. I'd prefer a more aggressive machine from Grizzly, Shop Fox, PSI, Delta, Jet, etc, but they tend to cost a bit more.

    Comment


    • #3
      Marty

      Welcome to the forum. If you are going to be in it for the long haul it is better to bite the bullet and do it right the first time, your lungs will thank you further down the line. My shop is relatively the same size as yours and a permanent DC takes up a considerable amount of real-estate, since you are located in a barn you may have the luxury of mounting it on wall on the exterior of your shop. That has its downside also, it is taking your nice heated air and dumping it elsewhere in the barn or outside. Your best bet is to solicit ideas, do some research and not rush into it, just try to come up with what will work best for you.

      Good luck

      Woodslayer

      Comment


      • #4
        I pretty much agree with hewood except that I'm a big fan of the HF 2HP Dust Collector. Centrally located, that DC should easily handle the equipment you now have and even a jointer if thats in your future.

        I've had my HF DC for over 2 years now and it runs as good as it did right out of the box.
        ================================================== ====
        All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with Dave about the HFDC, especially when you can almost always find it on sale. I have the Grizzley (1029?) and am very happy with it.
          Since you have a 2 story barn, if space is limited, you could put your DC on the 2nd floor and use a remote on/off. Just a thought.
          Lorax
          "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the ideas. The second floor of the barn is a train room with Lionel trains. (My other hobby).

            Any deals on the Harbor freight one? Should I go with the 1.5 HP or 2HP. Are they loud?
            Thanks again

            Marty

            Comment


            • #7
              I'm dyin' here

              Originally posted by Marty Irion
              Thanks for the ideas. The second floor of the barn is a train room with Lionel trains. (My other hobby).

              Man, yer killin' me. I love Lionel trains. 027 gauge? Got any pics?

              Any deals on the Harbor freight one?

              Check their website www.harborfreight.com and get on their mailing list. Got a HF store nearby?

              Should I go with the 1.5 HP or 2HP.

              You know what Tim the Toolman would say.

              Are they loud?

              Not as loud as a shop vac.


              Thanks again

              Marty
              10 characters
              Lorax
              "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

              Comment


              • #8
                Lorax,
                The train layout is in the process of being built. 18x22 around the room layout with a lower subway planned. I'll try the picture.
                No Harbor Freight here. I'm in Vermont

                Marty
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #9
                  ShopVacs and dust collectors actually work quite differently and each works best for different applications. ShopVacs move a smaller cross-section of air at a higher velocity. The impeller is typically running at anywhere from 10,000-20,000 RPM. That's why they have such a loud, high-pitched, whining sound. This high velocity makes them good for areas where the air flow is very restrictive. They can suck the sawdust through a very small hole or narrow slit, like the base of the sanding station or the (relatively) small hole in the fence of a router table. That's why they can have 1" or 2" hoses. But the dust also has to be very close to where the air is being pulled in, otherwise the dust will not be sucked up at all. You can prove this to yourself by slowly moving a ShopVac hose closer and closer to a pile of sawdust. You have to get pretty close to the pile before anything happens, and it will not even touch parts of the pile that are more than twice the size of the hose.

                  On the other hand, dust collectors get things done by moving a larger cross section of air, but with a much lower velocity. The impellers are larger, but turn at a more moderate 3,000 to 4,000 RPM. Because they are moving such a high volume of air, they can pull in more of the dust that might just be floating in the air and not just what is right next to the opening.

                  Like hewood said, the impeller size is the best indicator as to the amount of air a dust collector will move. Advertised motor HP ratings are almost useless, even AMP ratings can be fudged based on startup or no-load running. As to the the two dust collectors you mentioned, they are at different ends of the dust collection spectrum (and different ends in price too). The HF is more on the order of a "chip collector" which is good for getting the "bulk" of the bigger, nuisance chips out of the way, but won't do as much with the finer dust in the air. With it's 11" impeller its probably the smallest system that could support a small ductwork setup. The Penn State Cyclone, with it's 14" impeller, will easily support a larger ductwork system, suck up all the chips that you can see and the finer dust that you might not see, but that you taste and feel in the back of your throat and lungs after a day of dust making. I won't get all "churchy" on you about that - only you can decide how much it's worth based on how much you do woodworking.

                  Most of the tools you've listed will actually work OK with a large shop-vac and a 2" hose. Unless you modify them, or use multiple ports, a dust collector with a 4" hose choked down to a single 2" connector will not do any better than the ShopVac.

                  However, if your Ridgid Planer is the Thickness Planer (TP1300, not the hand power tool) you will want move up to something with at least a 4" hose. Not only can a thickness planer fill-up a typical shop vac within several minutes, but if you're taking a full cut on a wide board you will find that the dust collector hood gets clogged quite easily when using the 2" port. The planer ends up blowing chips back onto the board and leaving little "dents" on the surface.

                  Jim

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here's a few places with light reading;

                    http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

                    http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rodec/.../DC_myths.html

                    http://www.woodworking-forum.com/woo...rd_907466.html


                    Some searching on Google or Yahoo will yield too many links to list here.
                    "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                    https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you mount your unit in the train room you will want to upgrade the top bag to a cannister. With regard to heat loss, I use my externally mounted HF, 2HP as sparingly as possible via a remote switch. If I ever see the need to recapture the heat I plan to box the DC and port the box back int the shop. SO far, I don't see it happening.
                      Later,
                      Chiz
                      Later,
                      Chiz
                      https://www.ridgidforum.com/core/ima...lies/frown.pnghttps://www.ridgidforum.com/core/ima...es/redface.pnghttps://www.ridgidforum.com/core/ima...s/rolleyes.pnghttps://www.ridgidforum.com/core/ima...lies/smile.png

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This all seems discouraging...

                        Since most of you guys know that i'm green as grass to woodworking, i've got to say i didn't even consider the whole dust problem.
                        Since my work area is only 23x13 and it's inside the house not in a seperate garage or outbuilding am i just asking for trouble getting into woodworking?
                        I really don't feel i have enough room to include a collection system, not to mention the added cost of that unit (don't forget i don't have many tools yet at all).
                        I don't want to ruin my health or my house with this hobby.
                        Please give me your guys opinions on this.
                        I'm really glad Marty posted this question.
                        Last edited by nobunaga-sama; 01-12-2006, 12:03 PM.
                        Yoroshiku onegai shimasu

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [quote=nobunaga-sama]Since my work area is only 23x13 and it's inside the house not in a seperate garage or outbuilding am i just asking for trouble getting into woodworking? quote]

                          Yes you are. Everyone knows you need at least this much room!



                          Just send me whatever tools you have and I will "store" them for you until you are ready.


                          I will put together a serious reply to your question, but I bet BD beats me to it.
                          Lorax
                          "Did you put the yellow key in the switch?" TOD 01/09/06

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Lorax - you're an smarta$$ but i loves ya!!! lol
                            Last edited by nobunaga-sama; 01-12-2006, 01:47 PM.
                            Yoroshiku onegai shimasu

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Lorax, my initials are BD, but I know you meant the Badger

                              Anyway, I think that dust collection should be high on your list, if not you will find yourself spending a great deal of time trying to contain the mess and not tracking it to other places in the house. you still will have that problem, but it will be significantly reduced. And as you realize, the health issues are there too. If you start messing with MDF you will be wishing you had a DC system setup, that crap gets all over the place.
                              "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                              https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X