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  • #16
    With all due respect to KellyC He is buying the lowest cost tools aimed at the hobbyist and complaining they aren't standing up to day to day usage in a commercial application.

    I can make a list of Porter Cable, Dewalt, Black and Decker, Skill, Sears and Dremel tools that will fail faster than any Ryobi tool. I owned a broken Porter cable Tiger Cub strip the gears again saw. I own a dremel contour useless sander. I owned a broken skill drill, I owned a Black and Decker electric screw driver.

    I also owned a Porter Cable worlds best ROS, I also owned a Dremel very nice rotary tool, I also own a Black and Decker floor vac that you would have to kill my wife to get. I own a 1950 Skill Saw that has cut more lumber than I could pay for at today's prices. I have Sear 1/2 inch hammer Drill that I have abused on nearly everything for the last 30 years.

    There is no perfect tool manufacture which makes every tool perfect. This company may make the best Saws while this other company makes the best routers, etc.

    The Sear argument doesn't hold up. What Ryobi is building for Craftsman is exactly what Sears ordered I assure you. I also assure you if Sears wasn't selling them or was losing money on warrantee work they would be changed. I also assure you if Sears wasn't happy someone else would be making the tools.

    Before everyone swears off Ridgid wouldn't it be wise to see what is really happening?
    Rev Ed


    • #17
      I have skil and black and decker tools that are 40 years old and work like new. I never had a craftsman power tool worked well after a couple of years. All my ryobi tools work fine after years of use and abuse.
      I repair tools and I have found something interesting about craftsman tools: while a craftsman tool is designed and built by ryobi, the parts are not the same as the ryobi's counterpart. I have found the craftsman parts(some not all) to be inferior to ryobi. This is consistent with other makers of craftsman tools also. For example craftsman tools usually have very cheap switches. The switches start working improperly, which will slowly damage other parts(especially motors). The cost savings for a cheap switch is typically anywhere from 10 cents to a dollar on handheld powertools. It can be as much as $20 on large equipment. When you sell as many tools as sears this can add up to millions.


      • #18
        Rev Ed----about the only thing I agree with is your very last sentence! I'm more than willing to wait and see what happens. As I said earlier, I think the greatest loss would be if we no longer saw the innovation Ridgid was putting in their tools! The improvements on their mainstay table saw----2424 to 3612, have been exempilry. The Flip-Top stand is a fantastic alternative to the typical roller stand.

        But-----I fail to see your point on tools. There have been significant changes in any number of brand-name manufacturers quality, over the years, so it's a pointless comparrison----I still have a B&D 3/8" corded drill which is still going strong---but it was made before B&D shifted their quality line to DeWalt.

        Ryobi tools, whether made for Sears or their own name, are fine for limited, infrequent use, but in no way can you compare them to PC, DW or other brand names for duribility. Heck, I have two new Ryobi tools----a Sears right-angle drill and a Ryobi OSS. Both have the noisest gearing/motors, with the obvious future warning of poor performance---but, in my case, these tools will only see occasional use, so they're adequate for my needs.

        Lets put some numbers to it. I have 3 Ridgid/Emerson tools, which are 15 years + old---all are still going strong! I bought a load of Sears (Ryobi-built) hand power tools 15 years ago----of 6 tools, 4 died pre-mature deaths and the only surviving ones are infrequently used. Point being, there's a vast difference in quality between the two manufacturers.


        • #19
          All very good points.
          Moral of the story is:
          If it's a professional use your looking for, don't buy the tool targeted for the occasional home DIYer. If you are the DIYer, then you have an option of purchasing tools that will last you long enough to satisfy the 1/2 or less price than the professional tools would cost.

          IMHO, I have to say you need to read tool reviews, and judge the intended usage for what you need to spend to be happy. It's like the Homier or Harbor Frieght stuff. You have to know what your buying, or you can get stung.

          Also, IMHO, Ridgid is in no way going to "Sting" anyone. You are not just buying a tool/machine. You are buying a reputation, customer support, warrenty, etc. And history shows if their Ridgid name is on it, they stand behind it 100% and beyond.

          BTW, I'm totally satisfied with the Ryobi tools I own. Though not professionally used, used daily, and roughly. I'd never buy a Sears tool with any kind of motor. Skil and B&D are the DIYer's price tag for the last 10 to 20 years. But again, you have to know what your buying and if it will handle it's intended expectations.

          A little time spent researcing, will save frustrations and anger in the future...The pain of the price of a good tool sheads tears only once, where a poor quality tool sheds tears on every use.
          John E. Adams<br /><a href=\"\" target=\"_blank\"></a>


          • #20
            I'm guilty of having bought just about every yahoo brand over the years, thinking "All its gotta do is last this one project".Case in point, the HF 10" compound sliding miter saw. I bought it to put the vinyl siding on my cottage. Compared to the aluminum contraptions that use your circular saw, I was well pleased with it for $99. The beauty of it is, that while it is alive, I now own two miter saws and don't have to haul my good one anymore! It will die rather quickly, but I would recommend it for anyone for that purpose without hesitation. The same goes for all the other one off tools. My Craftsman Recip saw is darn near twenty years old because I am lucky to put 2 hours of use on it yearly! However,
            My 2424 was not bought for the warranty, price, looks or even heavy use. It was bought because I was impressed with the arbor & fence. If the demo model I looked at had wobbled as badly as the Sears , Delta and Jet models I looked at, I wouldn't be hanging out at this forum. I hope the quality stays no matter who makes their tools, else I will, as most of you will, move on to another brand.
            \"Is it Friday yet?\"


            • #21
              The point I was trying to make is no one tool manufacture makes the best of every type of tool. I have owned both excellent and junk tools made by nearly every manufacture. Today if I was going to buy a ROS I would only buy Porter Cable. However for a reciprocating saw I would only buy Milwaukee and not Porter Cable. If I was going to buy a sliding compound mitre I would buy Makita not Delta.

              I beleive there are tools Ryobi makes that are as good as or better than the run of the mill tools out there. I also believe they presently build and market to the home owner/hobbiest rather than the pro.

              I think if Ryobi did pick up the Ridgid line there is a "even" chance the tools quality would remain the same. I also think Ryobi understands marketing to the people that are prone to buy Ridgid tools better than Ridgid and that fact alone may make a vast difference in Ridgid tools.

              This may be a good thing, then again I may be all wrong [img]smile.gif[/img]
              Rev Ed


              • #22
                Ryobi made tools no one else made i.e. 110V driver/drills with torque settings. I used one daily to assemble products that used lots of screws. I still have two of them at home. One to drill, the other set up to drive screws.


                • #23
                  Just a comment to RevEd. The reason the displays in HD are so disgusting for Rigid is due to the fact that Rigid very seldom, if ever, send in reps to "encourage" HD to clean up their display. On the other hand I have constantly run into Ryobi and DeWalt reps setting up their own displays and promoting their tools. I like Rigid tools and have 3 of them myself but I can't just blame HD for their lack of interest in promoting them.


                  • #24
                    Well---after tossing 4 Ryobi tools (which were by no means cheap) you aren't going to convince me of Ryobi's quality and if Ridgid moves to Ryobi---won't be buying from them, unless it's a seldom used tool. Not saying that there may not be a good Ryobi tool out there, but why, as the consumer, does it have to be a crap shoot, as to whether I get a good one or a clunker? It's called reputation!

                    Totally agree about getting factory reps into the stores. I think problems noted here long ago, reflect the lack of factory rep presence at HD. They're the ones who make sure the displays are clean, etc. Heck, I've been looking at the same broken handle, on the 2424 rip fence, at my local HD, for the last 18 months----and it sticks in my mind because I've been waiting for them to get the 3612 out----not yet.

                    So, with all due respect to this forum sponsor----yes, IMHO, you got little or no help/support from HD---but, you also shot yourself in the foot by not supporting the product at the stores, by having factory reps. Both of these conditions can't help but affect sales----just the facts of life.


                    • #25
                      Re broken handle...Asked tool man at another store why they didn't have band saws on display.
                      He outlined a host of abuses caused by some customers. Ripping off parts, forcing mechanisms etc. (It's a shame stores don't get much respect any more.) Hurts us all in the end!


                      • #26
                        Lots of good points. I too do not restrict myself to any one brand. Brand A may make Tool X better than Tool Y but Brand B may make Tool Y better than Tool X. And, I am not particularly against buying stuff overseas. But some sweatshops create better stuff than others.

                        Shoot. Have you REALLY paid attention to how much we buy that is made overseas? I'm not talking just tools. Virtually EVERYTHING is made in China or Taiwan. If we were to ban importing Chinese goods we wouldn't be able to buy much of anything. Sad but true. Sure, it would be a way to put the squeeze on China but we wouldn't do ourselves any favors either. Not in the near term. OK. Off my soap box.

                        I'm not surprised by Craftsman having inferior parts in tools made by other brands. What better way to squeeze out a little more profit?

                        Anyone have any inside info on the new Delta X5 line of tools that's coming? I saw a teaser add in a magazine and wondered "What is that?"


                        • #27
                          I totally agree with your last response about the lack of Ridgid Rep support within the stores. The 3612 has been out for at least a year and the HD store closest to me still has a broken 2424 on display. You would think someone would at least put a 3612 fence on it for display.

                          The same store has two of the new sliding mitre saws in boxes. When I asked about a display and I would be able to see on they said they weren't going to display them.

                          You can't sell something using people that know nothing about it and having filthy broken displays or no display. For some reason Ridgid seems to think people are going to walk into HD and out of the blue, ask for their products. I will bet some MBA graduate that has never sold a thing in their life has put together many impressive Powerpoint presentations showing how this philosophy is a success. They have probably successfully convinced "the powers that be" the problem of poor profits and slack sales is rampant manufacturing costs and not the fact the factory reps have done nothing and the product isn't being marketed in any way to the public.

                          [ 05-20-2003, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: RevEd ]
                          Rev Ed


                          • #28
                            I did retail merchandising for a few years, as part of a sales job and part-time during college. HD's lack of care is nothing new, 'cause my work was almost 30 years ago----you'd go into a store and find the shelf unstocked or dirty and the order of your merchandise stuck in a corner, in the back room.

                            Heck, since my current work involves a lot of driving, I even suggested once or twice on this forum, that I'd be glad to pick up the slack----obviously some MBA brain-trust at Ridgid thought they could understaff their factory reps----heck, even if they had a few part-time college kids working under the factory reps----well, I'm always full of good ideas nobody listens to.

                            As to the broken handle on the old 2424----not saying it couldn't have been a customer, but the way it sits, someone could have just as easily rammed a pallet jack full of material into it----point being, after over a year, SOMEONE should have fixed it!


                            • #29
                              I have Ridgid tools and I have had excellent luck(?) with them to date although I my oldest item is no more than 1 1/2 years old. However when I was in the market for a new saw I didn't feel I could sit back and wait to see what was going to happen. Yes, our warranty is great and has not failed - yet, But when I laid out that 1900 bucks for my new Jet I did it because I felt they would be around in 20 years for parts at least. I feel that Ridgid IS shooting themselves in the foot but saying little and letting everyone speculate on what is happening. As I said, I could have spent a whole lot less and come home with the 3612 I was drooling over but the big drawback was I didn't want to get into the same situation as I was - to old, don't make it anymore, no parts. As I said before with the investment I made, I just couldn't put my foot in with no input from our forum sponsor. r


                              • #30
                                Just ordered a 8" dado insert for my 2424. Seems to me that the last time I needed a part, I spoke to Ridgid. Today it was handled by OrderTree.Com.

                                Has this always been the case or has this too been farmed out ? By the way, the mental midgets that created the Ordertree website used a non standard name for their index page. The only way to get to their site is :

                                [ 05-21-2003, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: douggage ]