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anyone see sawstop fail recently in IOWA at the show?

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  • #16

    Stop being such a waaa waaa. How much are your hands and fingers worth to you? I would pay $5000 gladly over the loss of a finger or use of a hand. THINK about that.


    • #17
      Originally posted by American and Proud View Post
      but does not deserve a royalty for HIS patent?

      IIRC, this wasn't the problem most had with the inventor's approach. Most didn't like the idea that (according to the general talk at the time - 2 to 3 years ago), the inventor was trying to require , via legislation, all manufacturers to include his device on their saw.

      Some felt this legislative approach was acceptable, if it would reduce injuries, while others did not approve of the approach.


      • #18
        My guess is that if engineers wanted to they could design around the patents if they so desired, and offer a simular system on there saws on there saws, and when it comes to court that many can be who has the deepest pockets, and who wants to prolong it the longest,

        and currently depending on when it was first patented they may not have that many years to jsut wait him out,

        and then again like said, may be the libality of the system is greater than not having the system in many manfactures oppion,
        Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
        "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
        attributed to Samuel Johnson
        PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.


        • #19
          Originally posted by Woussko View Post

          Stop being such a waaa waaa. How much are your hands and fingers worth to you? I would pay $5000 gladly over the loss of a finger or use of a hand. THINK about that.
          ?? Jerky?

          Think about what? I said anyone who's gonna play dirty to get my money aint gonna get it. If you want to pay more money for features someone else has decided you need then LESS power to you...literally.

          I suppose you are also willing to pay $5000 for my own invention that "guarantees" preservation of whatever you want it to preserve? It doesnt matter what it preserves because hey, it makes whatever you do safer and therefore you are not entitled to decide whether you want it or need it - you ARE going to have to pay for it because if you dont, I'm going to have my congressman pass a law that makes impossible for you to carry on without.

          I'd like a car that guarantees my life no matter what. I'd glady pay $4.3billion for a feature like that but guess what - I can't afford it. Think about that

          You'll be waiting till your dying day for that saw to come down in price. Think Leigh dovetail jig. This is a premium saw. True premium products are never discounted.
          Last edited by bretwalda; 11-06-2006, 02:12 PM. Reason: adding to response


          • #20
            I think the replacement brake is only around $60. That, plus the cost of your blade, is a bargain to avoid losing a body part.
            Joe Spear


            • #21
              Read the Sawstop Info

              I've read about the proposed legislation initiated by Sawstop's inventor. It's laid out pretty clearly on the Sawstop website. If I recall correctly, the proposed legislation dictates that a saw must have a blade-stopping saftey device, not necessarily the Sawstop blade-stopping safety device.

              Since all this is laid out on their website for all to see, I don't see anything underhanded or evil about it. I think if we start boycotting every organization that attempted to influence legislation out of self-interest, we'd have very few options for purchasing stuff.

              The automobile manufacturers spend millions lobbying against legislated safety improvements for their own greedy interests. Should we boycott auto manufacturers? I think we'd look rather silly trying to haul 100 board-feet of lumber on the backs of our bicycles. Here's a guy lobying for legislated safety improvements, and he's getting roasted for it. Both parties are acting out of self-interest. While I'm not necessarily keen on the government intruding on my life (I have the right be stupid if I so choose!), at least Sawstop's self-interest is more in line my self-interest (see signature).

              Still able to count to 21....


              • #22
                First, I think this is a great invention, however, I have a little concern that it may lead to the establishment of less than stellar safety habits. Back to the car maker arguement. Carmakers voluntarily added ABS to their cars once the marketers found it would sell more cars in the name of safety. However, drivers may falsely rely on the ABS to haul them out of a sticky situation that they would have never been in had general safe driving practices been in use. Now, that said, I think that the product is excellent insurance, but it still shouldn't be construed to replace good solid safety practice. I think school woodshops are an excellent application for this device, given that there is a teacher present to reinforce that it does not replace good practice. Production shops where time is of the essence and safety may sometimes get overlooked when one is hurrying to make a dealine. Yeah, OSHA will catch wind of this one. Lord, I'd love to have one, but until I can afford it, I'll stick to push sticks, blade guards, thin ripping jigs, anything that will keep my digits more than 6" from the finger eater.
                Only a surfer knows the feeling. Billabong ca. 1985 or so


                • #23
                  When you rely on legislators with questionable loyalties and one-sze fits all laws to replace the intiative to learn what you are doing and replace the common sense and personal responsibility to use the already required safety warnings and established safety procedures , "all for your own good" (because they see you as too stupid to survive life on your own), you have abdicated your right to free will and self determination (i.e. that equates to a concept called "freedom"). Just dutifully go to work, sign your paycheck over to the IRS, and rely on the congress to make sure you don't get a boo-boo.
                  I guess we need legislation to make sure any ski slope over 3 degrees downgrade has all the trees and rocks padded (it WAS a congressman, ex-pop star that split his head open on one wasn't it?)
                  One of the ways they make my life safer is requiring a warning on sleep medication to contain the warning "May cause drowsiness". Duh!!
                  There is a place for this technology, but to require it on all table saws (and it will go to power saws of all kinds before it is done) is ludicrous.

                  My $.02 worth

                  Practicing at practical wood working


                  • #24
                    For a school if they wanted one, sure. For an individual that needs one? may be time for a new hobby.
                    Last edited by Speedball; 11-06-2006, 11:12 PM.


                    • #25
                      I'm not saying the Government should step in, I would like to see the industry add alot better safety features as the sawstops, MANY fulltime woodworkers get injured, as do homeowners who enjoy woodworking as a hobby. No it is NOT a replacement for GOOD safety skills, but it IS one hell of a insurance policy just in case the unexpected happens. so saying , "for an idividual that needs one?...may be time for a new hobby." Is pretty LAME. Accidents happen, no one say's "hey i'm gonna stick my hand in the tablesaw today", or any other tool. The point is, the technology is there, its cheap enough, if it saves a few fingers each year, I say its worth every penny. Maybe you will never have an accident with a tool, but if that day does come you WILL breath a sigh of RELIEF as you look down and your finger is still there. The cost of a saw blade and the $60.00 brake is NOTHING compared to 1 finger when it is yours. THINK about it. It only takes that ONE time.
                      I have seen what they do on jobsites and it isnt pretty and alot of the time there isnt much to find for reattachment, as the blade pulverises the fingers , looks like someone put them through a meat grinder, IF your lucky they'll get cut off cleanly so they can try to reattach them. I myself would just rather have the option of that little extra insurance there,just in case. Better safe, than sorry.
                      This link has tablesaw safety tips and a 4 minute video
                      Last edited by American and Proud; 11-07-2006, 06:10 AM. Reason: added links


                      • #26
                        You are an agressive individual aren't you? I wonder how many other people have not returned because of your silly comments.


                        • #27
                          LOL - Good ol SawStop - creating infuriating debates the world wide web over

                          I'm not sure what you mean by the technology is cheap enough??

                          from the Washington Post:

                          The institute, based in Cleveland, also said its efforts to examine sensing technology were being hindered by the "web of patent applications Mr. Gass has filed."

                          The industry made it clear that its members weren't prepared to pay up to an 8 percent royalty on the wholesale price of each saw, Gass's asking price.

                          They estimated it would cost at least $70 million to implement the technology proposed in Gass's petition...
                          I dont know what table saws sales are industry wide but regardless $70 million is quite enough to significantly jack up the price - I am certain the TS3650 ain't gonna cost you $579 anymore. Are you willing to pay $1k for a such a saw with this feature?

                          I think that's crazy. What's next, built-in 1 HP vaccuum for my circ saw? Self destructing hammer when my fingers are too close?


                          • #28
                            In my humble opinion (to wade into a topic that's probably gone on far too long anyways...), the problem lies in how the US Patent office does it's job. They have been granting patents on simple ideas that should be considered more universal. As an example, Yahoo was granted a patent on the term "1 Click". Is this a patent or a trademark? It's far too vague and ambiguous.

                            An inventor should be granted patent rights on their new ideas and products. But to grant patents on conceptual matter is a bit too far. I'm all for increased safety in the shop, and think this thing would be a tremendous benefit. I also think our country is based on the ideals of competition and rival inventors should be allowed to come up with competitive devices.

                            As I said, these are merely my opinions and thoughts. They don't mean anything in the end, as the Patent Office will continue to do it's thing and we will eventually have this concept widely adopted through some means if it truly is a workable idea.
                            I put it all back together better than before. There\'s lots of leftover parts.


                            • #29
                              "I myself would just rather have the option of that little extra insurance"

                              You do have the option, but a Sawstop saw. Those that do not chose to have the extra security should not have it thrust down their throats and the cost of someone else's feel good attitude ripped out of their wallet.

                              Case in point: How long have seat belts been available, since somewhere around 1964 IIRC (my 64 Mustang had factory lap belts).
                              What is our most precious commodity; our children right? So how come (here in NJ anyway) kids are not required to wear seat belts in school buses? Shouldn't we FORCE all the schools to install seat belts in their buses and FORCE the kids to wear them? It will only cost a couple thousand dollars per bus. It is certainly cheaper to do so than for even one child to be injured in an accident.

                              While the Sawstop is a great safety feature, I feel that the way the patent holder/inventor or whoever is pushing for the Sawstop to be required on all saws in only promoting them in their own interest. I think they are a good idea for school shops and for employers who choose to use them. I think others should be left to make their own choices just as they are with many safety decisions around the home/home shop.

                              How many of you would be whining if OSHA applied to your home shop?
                              • Get rid of those 14 Ga. extension cords, only 12 Ga allowed now.
                              • Where's your hearing protection?
                              • How about some ANSI approved eye wear and shoes?
                              • Hey buddy; you need a flammable locker for those cans of spray paint and the lacquer don't ya know.
                              • What kind of glue is that? Where's the MSDS sheet for it?
                              • You working over 6 feet above the floor, you need fall protection.
                              • Sorry, you can't lean that step ladder against the wall and work off of it, they're not designed to be used that way.
                              Last edited by Bob D.; 11-08-2006, 08:04 PM. Reason: fixed a typo
                              "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006



                              Time, cost, or quality; pick any two but you can't have all three.


                              • #30
                                YES, Children should have to wear seat belts in a school bus, shoulder/lap belts just like they have to in your own auto, My children do not ride in school buses,( I have 4) for that reason. If your state does not have a mandatory law requiering them in cars for at least children, i'm glad I do not live in that state. IF you thoroughly read my posts youd also see that I said i'd like it to be an "OPTION" on all brands, not mandatory, there design(sawstops) is one option, i'm sure if other manufacturers cared about your safety they too could add something similar, maybe a design like an auto's braking system a brake pad on either side of the blade say like a racing go carts disk brake system, the blade as the disk, NO damage to the blade, the shoes would last a LONG time. see how simple it could be if they cared enough to do it? It could be mounted at the lower part of the blade and travel with it up/down/tilted. Not to much retooling as they claim, IMHO. Even if they all went with sawstops design as an optional feature, it will only add $100.00-$150.00 per unit,( to a saw WITH the "option") I could afford that extra amount if I wanted it. And that cost would come down as tech items always do. So a $500.00 tablesaw would go for around $600.00-$650.00 WITH the OPTION, if wanted, so you may have to save just a little longer if you wanted the option to be able to afford it, a month or two longer , not a big deal .If you can afford to spend $500.00-$550.00 now on a non essential hobby item, I think those who would want the added safely could afford to wait a little longer , to pay the offset price compared to the same saw without it.
                                Saying that I have the option now isnt true, that saw is a darn good saw, but out of my price range at $ 2799.00, worth it,I have seen it in person a Quality saw through & through. But out of my budget at the moment, so is the unisaw without the features at $ 2327.20 on Amazon, But, the saw I did buy, I could have waited a little bit longer to make that purchase at $150.00 more than I paid for it without. That's my opinion and i'm sticking to it. As far as OSHA goes , as a Union member for the last 18 or so years, there pretty easy to deal with if you just use common sence on the job.
                                * waves to Sandy lol I saw that elsewere Sandy. Nice dividers by the way too.
                                Last edited by American and Proud; 11-08-2006, 09:44 PM. Reason: added content