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Bought 2 more tools today, But ....

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  • Bought 2 more tools today, But ....

    I Bought the HF central machinery Belt/Disk Sander 6x48 belt x9 inch disk, then went to Rockler , got there AS they closed at 7pm I headed to Lowes, NO PC stuff on clearance(ok 1 small PC router was $20.00 off) they had'nt heard a word about them clearancing the PC stuff, but it's a new Lowes.Anyways I saw Delta's Belt/Disk Sander there, same sizes but about $100.00 more. I did see a Delta 14 inch Bandsaw with a new lower price of $379.00 ( I WISH I had bought that one over the Ridgids at that price!) It already had urathane wheels, better fit and finish and the easy to reach up front knobs for under the table adjustments,The rear safety guard is slotted so you dont have to remove it to replace blades.(weird Ridgid gives you that type slotted one WITH the riser block)a smaller leg set as the motor is in a more suitable place, you can actually OPEN the lower door, I believe a light also, could be wrong on that one, was to busy kicking myself in the A** for not buying that one.),I drove to Menards and picked up a JET AFS-1000B Air Filtration unit, Happy with that purchase.
    Got home put together the HF B/D sander ,it was missing about 12 washers, one of the Allen headed set screws was I believe crossthreaded, I could'nt get it to loosen or tighten, then it started rounding as I tried , well I put it together but the Delta was on my mind all the while. Once together it runs fine smooth in fact,sanded a scrap piece to see if I could stop it , no dice there, but then realized alot of dust was flying, NO dust port built into it, the Delta one has a built in dust port, so i'm gonna tear down the HF one and return it and pay the extra $100.00 for the Delta, it also has a spring loaded quick release for the belt that the HF one does not have.The Delta unit is just better all around , Not used to Lowes being around here so I keep forgetting one opened about a 1/2 hours drive ,up until now they were at least an hour to hour and a halfs drive . I tell ya that 14 inch Delta Bandsaw with more features at $379.00 looks SWEET.
    Last edited by American and Proud; 10-28-2006, 05:39 AM.

  • #2
    Sounds like you have been buying some more stuff (fun,fun,fun)......the jet air filtration unit is one that looks appealing to me, just this afternoon I was researching that very same unit and it looks goooood!


    • #3
      Originally posted by AllanToolGuy
      I wish people that have bought contractor style table saws could get to try out a Delta Unisaw or a USA made Powermatic 66 first.
      Is the Powermatic 66 still made over here? And is it actually made over here or just assembled in the States of foreign parts, like my Makita CSMS.


      • #4
        Can you believe it.......

        As stated in my earlier post here^, I took back the HF 6x48Belt x9 inch disk sander, had to talk to the Manager to get my CASH back, as there store "policy" is they'll give you $100.00 Cash back and mail you the rest or mail you the full amount back, what a crock, but I got my FULL amount of CASH back. I drove to Lowes and grabbed the Delta 6" Belt / 9" Disk Sander Model-31-695, Last one on the shelf. While there, they also had Delta's Shopmaster Dust Collection Network, kit. Lowes price was $109.00, the box was tore up and I could see the hose was semi crushed.(really only a cosmetic thing, very slight denting of the wire) So I asked the tool guy there if I could get a discount because of the box being tore up, he said he did'nt know he'd call a manager, she came over looked at it wrote down the # for it and said she'd go look it up, a few minutes later she called the tool guy said let him have it for $69.00, So I took it. Was happy, I now had a start on my Dust Collection as I had bought the HF 2H.P. DC unit. Get home all happy and started to put together the Delta 31-695 only to find, on of course the last and final steps to putting it together that one of the holes for the dust port was drilled and tapped to large! (in the cast iron base) for the 3 supplied screws for it 2 fit fine. AND one of the large set screws for the Disk sanders table was crushed and cracked, can't fit the supplied "T" handled Allen wrench in it! Then I tried installing the Metal fence that you use with the belt, it fits at the lowest point , but the holes for the Mid and Upperpoints are both "OFF" so you can't install the fence at either of those locations without grinding the fences slots!
        WHY can't these companys DEMAND Quality CONTROL!?
        Pisses me off to no end!
        Of course there damn customer service office was CLOSED when I called it.
        IF I wanted to grind and F*ch around retapping holes I would have KEPT the H.F. sander and SAVED the over $100.00 AND, MY Time AND ,MY Gas!
        Delta USED to mean "QUALITY" guess it now means- H.F. in GREY Paint instead of GREEN.


        • #5
          I suppose if a person wants a piece of equipment in perfect shape the need to cough up a little more green.........A guy gets what he pays for.


          • #6
            A $230.00 Delta sander should be Sh*t ? NO it should be as expected, a decent tool. Not a Harbor Freight tool, there you expect crap. No tool should require retooling it, maybe a HF one but not a namebrand one. What 6x48 with a 9inch sanding disk benchtop (with legs)machine do you recommend ? Since your toting spend more money, why the heck do you think I took the H.F. one BACK? and spent $100.00 more for the Delta. I can afford ANY machine I want but for a sander all i'm basically gonna use it for is fitting Zero clearance Tablesaw inserts seems silly to have to spent a Grand on one.
            Originally posted by Speedball View Post
            I suppose if a person wants a piece of equipment in perfect shape the need to cough up a little more green.........A guy gets what he pays for.


            • #7
              I like the Delta, it has features the H.F. one didn't offer. the H.F. one did have a nicer stand , more of a semi enclosed one (took up less floor space) Delta's is a WIDE, open leg design,taking up more valuable floor space.Either one would work for what i'd be using it for. But decided to pay the extra cash out now rather than regret the H.F. purchase later on down the line, as my needs grew.It was missing 12-15 washers and one factory installed set screw on it was crossthreaded. I decided NOT to except that.( even though I know H.F. is basically cheap crap, and fixing the set screw and adding my own washers would only cost me my time,but MY time has worth )So I purchased the Delta, payed more so I EXPECT more.( as all uf us SHOULD do.) By fixing and reconfiguring these well known namebrand machines ourselves , we are only doing a disservice to ourselves, and all consumers, that only sends the "message" to them that sh*tty quality and workmanship is exceptable. Is it exceptable in your job? NOT mine.And it should NOT be excepted in theirs either.
              If you replace your furnace, and one guy quotes you a lower price do you expect a unsafe install ?, and just except it as oh well I got it for a good price,goodnight kids sleep well dad saved some money and dont worry because I rigged the flue. My point is that I took the H.F. sander back because even though there cheap, I did not except the missing parts and crossthreaded set screw as exceptable. Drove out to buy a BETTER quality machine so I would NOT have to FIX it before even plugging it in to use it. Your attitude about just going ahead and fixing it, is WHY we have so many quality control issues, If we did NOT except them, we would recieve BETTER Quality.
              Originally posted by AllanToolGuy
              A and P, If you did fix up the Delta by doing some of your own machining on it (Should never be needed, but ____) how would it work for you? Did you like the H F one better? It's a shame but even high end and big $$$ products come with defects. Quality control is in the past anymore. The real issue is that if you knew what Lowes and Home Depot pay for what they sell for a given price. The markup is huge and then there's the master distributor (or maybe not) wanting profits. What it comes down to is that in order to have good machinery and/or tools we all have to be machinists and re-machine them. How sad Even the low cost items should be run through some manor of quality control. Defects make good companies look like junkers.

              Try taking a sample set screw (good one) to a good local hardware store and I bet they can match it or come close enough so you can work with what they have. Something wild must have happened in shipping to destroy a set screw that much. Oh wait, I bet it was defective when packed at the factory by some very underpaid (slave) person with poor eye sight.


              • #8
                True, it is going to be a pain in the A**, but if no one does it, it will only get worse not better , sure I could fix it but I should'nt have to, and fixing it then complaining to Delta or any other manufacturer, is exactly what they want. sending units BACK as DEFECTS will get there attention alot more than bitchin to some customer service person that hasnt a clue and could care less, and no one at the company ever see's , but COSTLY returns for shoddy machines WILL.
                Fixing it yourself and not buying that Brand or Model again, he** there would'nt be any tools left to choose from .
                PITA or not the only way to make a stand against these companies is to RETURN Defective merchandise.
                They already took away many American jobs to save a few bucks and UP there profits. I'd rather pay more for a product that is made right to begin with, when these big box stores started coming in and forced out the small family owned hardware, I stuck with them till they all closed i'd rather pay more for quality merchandise and service by someone who actually cared about what you came into their store for , not some kid or adult just killing time for low wages.
                I fought with Gateway Computers for 7 months over a computer purchase they kept sending me parts walking me through installing them, i'd scream wtf I payed for IN home service WERE is the service man? I got , oh we'd only send one for a Motherboard install this we can walk you through over the phone sir , well it came time after replacing every single part the Motherboard arrived,guess who installed it? oh we can walk you through it sir. I did some research on the web and called South Dakota's States Attorneys Generals office, (were Gateway is located)two hours after talking to her secratary she called me personally , asked me a few questions then said i'll call you back, she called me 20 minutes later, said if I did not hear from Gateway within 24 hrs. to call her back, 1 hour later Gateway was on my phone an actual person with clout in the company not some customer service idiot, I was given my pick of ANY computer they had with any and all options I wanted, I ordered a system that was about 2 1/2 times what I paid for the crap one I had recieved, some of the options the Gateway person urged me to add like a DVD Burner when they were still about $350.00 for the Sony units, I recieved that unit 1 1/2 days after that order was placed, they called asked if I was happy with it, said I did not like the replacement monitor as much as my old one they sent out another model the next day, I had 2 computers 3 monitors at my house , was saticfied with the new one and send the 2 monitors and the bad computer back.
                You have to stand up to these companies , they run you through hoops for a reason, in hopes you just give up, and most do, that's a shame . You can win against these big companies.
                Several years ago I bought my wife a New car on X-mas eve, a year later as she was driving down the tollway it caught fire out of no were as she was doing 65MPH, her pregnant, and with my oldest who was 4 in the back seat in her car seat, wife noticed a loss of power then saw the center of the hood turn black as she drove, she pulled over and got my daughter out of the car ran down the emergency lane a few paces turned around, the car was engulfed in flames. Insurace would only pay so much but we owed more on it than they would pay, meaning i'd be stuck paying for a car under warrenty that totally burned . I was not happy to say the least, I made 50 or so phone calls bitching my head off getting nowhere, Until I decided it was time to write the President of that car company, did my research , and wrote a letter to his home address, less than a week later we had the car payed in FULL by that car company.(BTW 6 months later there was a MAJOR recall on that car model, for a faulty gas line that sat above the engines manifold and sprung leaks on the HOT manifold.)
                It may be a PITA, but if no one complains Nothing will get better, the quality will continue to go Down, Not up.
                My wife and I feel we MAY have saved someones life by not giving in .
                Last edited by American and Proud; 10-29-2006, 05:22 PM.


                • #9
                  A & P,

                  I'm with you, if it isn't right; if it's broken, defective, lousey materials or workmanship... send the sucker back and let the company know that you're disappointed in their product, service, or whatever. Nothing gets fixed when you, the customer, let's it go and fixes it themselves.

                  One thing that I learned early in life is that most companies and far too many people will happily live DOWN to your expectations. Unfortunately, having high expectation can be very frustrating and subsequently I cautiously approach almost any new purchase and have learned to prepare myself "for battle". Surprisingly, and very happily I might add, things seem to be steadily improving over the last couple of decades. Largely due to foreign competition, IMO.

                  I too have found that your state Attorney General's Office is a one of the greatest avenues for exercising your rights as a consumer. That's a drastic measure, and not to be used lightly, but if you are sure you are right and are getting ripped, the AG has proven to be very helpful and quite successful in fixing a situation.

                  One thing that I am very insistant about it getting a defective product replaced and NOT just fixed. When I buy something, I expect it to be in perfect working order and if it isn't, then I want a brand-new product... not have it "fixed". My reasoning being that if I was going to buy a "repaired" product, it sell for considerably less than if it were new. So, buy a TV, computer, entertainment center or tool, if the darn thing stops working within a few days, one needs to insist that it be replaced and not repaired. Fortunately, companies like Ridgid recognize that expectation and offer fairly decent "satisfaction" guarantees like in the case of Ridgid's 90-day policy.

                  Money comes too hard to waste on poor quality and terrible service. Consumers should never hesitate to complain loudly.

                  My opinion anyway,



                  • #10
                    EXACTLY C.W. , IF everyone who got a defective machine or whatever it was took it BACK and complained, we ALL would benefit from it, the quality control issues would become an issue to those companys who choose not to control it. Lowes has the Delta 6'belt/9'disk sander for $229.00, then a $25.00 mail in gift card brings it down to $204.00 ,now for my complaining and troubles I also recieved a $25.00 gift card on the spot, further lowering the price to $179.00.
                    I opened the box in the store before repurchasing it and put it together to be sure I recieved one that was good, this one is fine .
                    While I was a auto body tech/auto painter if there was one speck of dusk in the paint someone would complain, and we'd be repainting it.
                    While being a commercial Union flooring installer, the jobs had inspectors that looked for anything they didn't like in all the trades on the job ( called a "punch list")you either made it right or your company did not get paid.
                    As far as Machine shops go Allen, A life long friend of mine owns one, has 3 Makaz machines BIG BUCKS( and alot of other types of machinery) and he NEVER "Fixes or RIGS a machine, they fly a tech in the next day if theres a problem. In FACT they come install them from the start.
                    It's called SERVICE.
                    Which far to many companys have forgotten, and NEED a kick in their A**es to remember ,it is US the consumer that KEEPS them in business. NOT there share holders, "Handy Andy","Home Base","Builders Square" all are out of business because of POOR service and just plain crap they sold, HD and Lowes should keep that in mind , more HD than Lowes so far from what I see here at least in the Chicago area. Lowes is moving in. Menards is geared more towards the woman as my wife says. But there running scared here revamping most of there stores here, to compete. Best way I know of is to offer better quality merchandice and better service, and WE as Consumers Need to DEMAND it, or let them close their doors.
                    I hear you Allen ,but your attitude towards oh it's a PITA to return it I can just rig it to work, is WHY were in that state were in now, yes you get what you paid for, that does not mean that buying something new should be something that needs fixing befor it is ever used, and YES i'll keep "Howling" as you say, many more should do the same.
                    And BTW Allen I asked about the unit I returned and was told Delta required it to be returned to them. (maybe they wont you just never know) But I also called and let Delta know of the defect.
                    We ALL must do our part , PITA or not, or we will be the ones who loose.
                    I do now have a properly made machine.
                    Last edited by American and Proud; 10-31-2006, 03:33 PM.


                    • #11
                      Allen ,I'm just a perfectionist when it come's to my work, I have won awards for custom body/paint over the years.
                      In Commercial flooring I specialized in whats called "Flash Coving" it is used mainly in sterile environments, Hospital Operating Rooms mostly, the flooring (sheet goods, Linoleum) is laid on the floor and up the walls ( one piece) usually 4-6 inches and all seams are heat welded.Although i've laid it as high as 4 feet up the wall.
                      I guess I expect the same out of anyone I deal with or pay for a service , or I just do it myself. But I just don't believe in having to fix something brand new, if it breaks after the warrenty or past the return it point i'd fix it.
                      Remember too, the old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" It's true.


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AllanToolGuy
                        A & P

                        Wanting things just right is great. It's a real shame more people aren't that way. As for body shop work you need to see the really bad work MAACO near me turns out. It's all very wrong to run a business that way, but they never get the same customer more than once. How they stay in business is beyond me, unless they sell something the police should know about. Anyway after using the sander please let us all know what you think about it. Good luck with the dust collector too.
                        The reason they stay in business is that some people don't care about the quality ! They just want a paint job so they can unload the car for a fast sale!

                        My main belief is that YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!! I know that doesn't always run true, but most cases it is a fact.

                        In todays age of e-mails you can get to a manufacturer much faster, and get a response.

                        I purchased 2 new machines this past weekend! I bought a Rikon 14 inch band saw and a Rikon 6 inch jointer from the Knoxville Woodcraft store. They had there anual open house and wood show. I got a great deal on both machines. Met with the VP of Rikon.
                        Everyone thinks there problems are more important than yours!


                        • #13
                          Modifying Tools

                          I bought a Delta AP300 dust collector w/ a great rebate at Lowes a few years back. I replacxed the crappy 30 micron bag w/ a 5 micron bag. The collector would clog w/ chips from my planer.They chips would hang up on the safety cover to the impeller. Delta had a cross shaped cover on inlet port to prevent curious fingers from getting at impeller. I removed the safety cover and it works great. While this is a minor mod it shows sometimews you can fix something to meet your needs.
                          You can never have enough drills-too many is just enough!!!!!


                          • #14
                            Akita, the other side of that coin is that if Delta would have spent just a little more money on a higher impact resistant impeller there may have been no need for the impeller safety cover in the first place. By removing the cover you certainly improved the functionality of your DC however you also voided your warranty and exposed your impeller to possible damage. That cross member is there more to keep larger wood chips away from the impeller than it is to keep fingers away. A minor modification yes but if something does happen it will be you who will pay the repair bill and not Delta.
                            I decided to change calling the bathroom the "John" and renamed it the "Jim". I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.