I don't know guys, we have some concerns and reasonable questions and suggestions, but the scope of the problem is enormous. What really bothers me is that there are brilliant folks who do understand not only the enormity of the problem but what it would take to fix it, but we don't hear from them! We get more lies, misinformation and distractions. I'm pretty sure if there is a fix, it is not waiting to be sprung on us by either political party. They are both clueless or so fixated on their own agenda, that the serious issue of our economy and the necessary extreme measures to fix it are not on their radar.
We are just talking here, throwing out ideas, but everyday that passes and nothing positive is done to change the picture just brings us closer to a time when it becomes more than just talk. I don't want to pay $65 for a $8 dollar toaster, but it would beat dealing with a depression if that's what it takes. I'm open to opposing thoughts, and hope I'm very wrong about how bad things are and how much worse they are going to get.
I'd be damned glad to pay $65 for a toaster that works properly. My $14 Wal Mart made in Chinko Pinko land special will burn the first two slices and make stale bread thereafter unless you sit there and birddog and fiddle with the damned thing.:(
Buy once cry once, buy twice or trice and bawl your damned brains out.:)
If one would just strip the feds of doing what is not in the Constitution, would go a long way, (to be realistic this would have to be done in planed and calculated steps as not drive the economy in to disaster and so those who would become responsible for the area deleated, (in most instances the states) could work in the new role, in the process much of the portion federal tax burden would then be transfered to the state government, for it support of the new or expanding those roles,
but if you did, it would be much like what was stated in the first post,
there would be a few things that would help turn it around, one
when it comes to senate and Representatives to (1) to the time they serve, (2) all the laws pertain to them as well, and when they are no longer serving there term there money stops, and (3) limit the days congress can meet, to about a 1/4 of what it is now, (4), give them a government apartments and then reduce there salary to what is the average ever what there state average is. and a limited travel or business budget.
yes many of the programs would need to be limited or reduced,
for any agency of the Federal government, that makes regulatory policy that policy and even the rules would at least have to be approved by a committee of both house and senate, and could be revised or eliminated at will of congress,
Laws passed by congress would normally have a sunset clause in them and unless there was a 75% or greater vote of both house and senate, would be needed to make it a permanent law (or no sun set on it), other wise it would sunset in 3 to 5 years, and would need to be extended at a later date if to continue,
no bill could have non related amendments in it. (no earmarks) and all funding would have to stand on it own merit, not piggybacked on some thing else,
and I think term limits on the Congress and Representatives, (it should be a peoples government, not a professional one),
I also think that a person should be a resident of the state for a number of years before being able to run for a senate or house seat, (at least equal to the length of term there running for)
I think also a percentage of GNP (excluding emergency), should be a set maximum for running of the federal government, (taking away there revenue generating needs and schemes)
on the state level some percentage of it state combined produced revenue, as a max for state spending, and personally I think if the economy would growing at some positive percent, a proportion of that should go to a saving account for the state when revenues may drop do to a down turn, (and the saving accounts could not be touched until the rate of growth was at a lower level, so it could not be robbed (like social security was by congress) and used for what ever.
and I think there needs to be some limiting rules that would even drop down to the local level,
(for example some small town to use there police force to raise revenue, thought questionable speed stops or other, for the towns coffers, law enforcement should be for law enforcement, not cash generation).
currently the way things have become the foxes are watching the hen house, and they do not care if they destroy there food supply (the US economy) as long there currently fat and happy.
MY two cents, that may be all it worth,
I agree that drastic measures are needed. Unfortunately it took a long time to screw things up and it will take a long time and a lot of pain to fix them. You can't really just "stop" programs and spending cold turkey - as attractive as that may be, the result would be to turn a slow economy into a stopped economy.
The number one thing that needs to happen is Americans need to get out of the mindset that we can't compete. What that attitude really means is that we have gotten too fat and lazy to compete. WE have the best educated population with the finest system of higer education in the world. WE are still the leading GDP nation on earth (fading fast, but still #1). WE CAN compete with nations of unsilled and semi-skilled, poorly educated people. But we will get our heads handed to us if we don't get in the game, and the problem is we don't seem to want to do that.
The second thing we need to all recognize is that there are two kinds of people in the United States. There are people that build things and then there are people that squeeze money out of things. The first kind of people built the United States. The second kind is running the show right now. This would include the financial community, the Federal Reserve, Wall Street and the current crop of CEOs running the major US corporations. And yes, both houses of Congress, POTUS & SCOTUS because they are owned by the financial community and corporate America. Not just this POTUS & Congress, either... every one since and including Nixon. I am very conservative - as conservative as you can be without being an anarchist- but we need to understand that the second kind of people will BLEED US DRY without regulation. And the only person with the horses to do that is Uncle Sugar. The bloodletting is really nothing new. It's been happening for a long time.
Third, we must accept that this is going to hurt. The problem is so overwhelmingly massive that spending cuts at this point are not going to have an effect. For cryin' out loud they GAVE AWAY our industry! In fact, we have no choice but to spend like mad for the next ten years. The key is going to be what we spend on. The debt will skyrocket. It must for us to do what is needed to re-establish the United States. But in the end, we WILL be energy independent and the once again we WILL be an industrial power. The result will be prosperity and increased tax revenue that will get us out of the very deep hole. Spending cuts only guarantee inaction, selaing the deal and merely dragging out our inevitable demise.
And then, we have to not let this happen again.
I posted the following before on another thread but I'll repeat it here since it's really a better fit with this thread. I added a couple of minor edits. These things are pretty extreme measures but in my view every one of them would help and is necessary. IF we started this tomorrow it would take 10 years to recover this country. If we start in 5 years it will take 20 years to recover. If we wait 10 years, we won't have to worry about it.
* Revise the tax code heavily to penalize corporations for importing parts and labor. Strongly incentivize business for investments in US manufacturing & manufacturing technology - in a "results based" way. The resulting growth will eventually increase government revenue. The "service economy" notion is being shown to be a failed experiment. The tax code also MUST be dramatically simplified. All the tens of thousands of provisions of the code should tell everyone that there are people making out and others (us) getting screwed.
* Immediately start a massive effort to develop practical energy independence. This needs to be comparable in committment level to the moon landing effort, but with a *much* larger budget. Sharply increase taxes on energy, including gasoline. Nationalize the oil companies and use ALL of their profits, along with the higher tax revenue from energy, to help fund the program. No pain, no gain.
* Eliminate the Federal Reserve system completely. That's all I'll say for now, because it would be a huge subject. They are screwing you very, very badly.
* Toughen up on trade policy. Trade isn't bad, and it is necessary. But don't allow unrestricted imports from nations that don't import American products in an equitable manner. THis shift in policy should be gradually phased in while we rebuild our industry. Heavily tax US corporations for going offshore for goods or parts. Do not only eliminate the tax benefits of outsourcing jobs, penalize outsourcing any labor that can be done inside the USA. Corporations exist to make money - it's all they know. We have to take away the financial incentive to go offshore.
* Establish protected industries and incubate their rebuilding. Many of the countries that are kicking our butts do this. For some reason we seem to think it's a bad thing.
* Stop bank subsidies and bailouts immediately. If banks are in trouble, break them up and sell the pieces. The bailouts are all a swindle that isn't helping. Instead, strongly incentivize small banks and establish tax benefits that encourage private lending.
* Break up the big banks. We don't need them. The bankers need them. You need some regulation, but a mostly-deregulated (ala Reagan, just a bit less extreme) system can work. The problem is, we forgot about antitrust and let some institutions get big. If you have BOTH deregulation AND huge central institutions, your'e in trouble and that should be the lesson of the past 18 months.
* Make political lobbyists illegal, with no exceptions.
* Put real teeth in antitrust regulations in general. This is a huge problem.
* Increase defense spending. Not by having wars, but by modernization of aircraft, radar, high tech intelligence systems, weapon systems, etc. This is not war mongering. It creates important jobs at all levels, provides an elastic market to absorb technology AND factory workers, and results in many important technical developments (rather that the private system that gives us Twitter and Facebook). Plus it will keep us secure, which is going to be important. When you think enemy, think missiles aimed at you, not middle eastern fanatics throwing rocks and improvising bombs.
* Forget the current healthcare proposals - they are not smart. Instead, put draconian limits on the profits that insurance companies can realize. We are, if I remember correctly, the only Western industrialized nation that has no limit on the profits that insurance companies can make on health care. Fix this and costs will come down. Limit health insurance by law to major medical only. We should all write a check for our minor and routine health care. The insurance companies are making a killing on this and have gotten waaaay too large. Why is it I pay $150 a month for a gardener to maintain my yards but I have to have an insurance company pay for my annual medical checkup? Dumb.
* Completely revise the election process. It's clearly an ethical nightmare, and the country has become numb and is turning a blind eye to it. The recent SCOTUS decision re Citizens United v. FEC should point this out clearly.
* This won't be popular: Cut out student financial aid for all but selected degree programs. Then, take that money, add some more, and give really low cost or preferably free education to US Citizens in the fields that will get us back on track: the sciences, math, engineering, etc. We don't need more lawyers, political science majors, or sociologists. If someone wants to be a poli sci major, great... but the Government can't afford to pay for it.
* Eliminate 401K, 403b, 457b tax deferred retirement plans. These are largely responsible for the stock market bubbles. Thy don't save anyone tax money. The government's revenue requirements are the same... these plans are just a redistribution of income scheme.
* Get the government out of the "gays in the military" business and all that sort of nonsense. I don't care about gays in the military or otherwise. There are real problems to worry about.
* Get away from local school district control of primary schools and high schools. They are way too inefficient. Cost per student spent by public schools is equivalent or higher than that spent per student in many private schools that achieve better results. Many teachers are good. Few administrators or school board officials are.
* I absolutely don't agree with outlawing micropocessors. With all due respect, that would be nuts and would kill us in a technology oriented world. But I DO fully believe that there should be NO COMPUTERS IN SCHOOLS. Johnny needs to read, write, be able to do math, and learn history. Whether he can navigate websites or click on icons is of no value.
* Stop talking about entitlement programs and phase them out. You can't screw the recipients that you have a contract wioth, but you CAN avoid entering new conntracts for entitlement bennies from this day forward. Focus on Civil Service and other government employee entitlements to start. The only entitlments that we should keep are Social Security and Medicare, both of which need to be revamped so that they work.
* There are more.
One Guy solved all His problems today ,with a can of gas and His airplane
He was right about doing the same thing and expecting a different result being insane, but was ending his life a brilliant move? Now his wife and daughter have to pick up the pieces, I feel sorry for them.
There is a guy in my town who lost his house in a tax auction just to prove a point, that the town tax dept was being unfair. He had the money to pay, but chose to stand on principles. Now he doesn't have his house, was that a smart move?
The problem isn't the computer. I didn't mean to imply that I felt that they are evil. In college in the late 70s I spent many a night punching lines of Fortran onto cards and afterwards soldered my first computer from a kit using the (really cool at the time) 8 bit Z80 mp. The cockpit displays for the F15E and F18 aircraft were thermally analyzed using finite difference software that I wrote because commercial programs that ran on the PC - dual 5-1/4 drives and 640k ram - weren't available at the time. My point is that I am somewhat of a computer-oriented person - at least not anti-computer in general.
The problem with the computer in schools is that when it's there, it gets misused and has artificial importance attached to it. Schools focus on "computer labs" and budget dollars go to it. Maybe I'm missing something but the results of our primary and high school system seem to be as disappointing as the results of our University system is outstanding! Reading and writing might be a prerequisite to using the computer but from the test scores you wouldn't guess it. I just think the focus needs to be on the basics.
You could probably get me to compromise my position without too much arm twisting, but I do think the spirit of the thought is valid.
Don`t worry Frank the money jugglars are at work and she`l be right they are pushing all that bad debt under the carpet and what you don`t see wont hurt you just look at Greece they have nearly fixed their bad debt and they will do the same for whatever country in the future falls behind.
Are you fit Frank could you handle a rickshaw as I feel that is our future.?