what we have here ... is failuer to comuncate [img]tongue.gif[/img]
what we have here ... is failuer to comuncate [img]tongue.gif[/img]
"In that I have no desire to share information with someone as disrespectful as yourself (go to school and pay for it) I will say addios to this site for a good while. I've needed to spend less time in front of my computer and thank you for giving me incentive to stay off."
Plumber, there are also those of us, myself included, who highly appreciate the skill, experience and knowledge you have and are willing to generously share with the rest of us here. The tradesman who says he knows it all or even comes CLOSE to it, no matter HOW many years of experience, is simply full of it. This field demands never-ending learning and growing. There are HVAC guys out there with 40 years under their belt and still taking classes on the neweest technology and techniques. And someone with your length of time in the field and experience will always have something to teach us. Don't punish the entire lot because of one simpleton whose over-sized ego and under-sized fallic organ will not allow him to take a little flak along with good advice because he would rather BS us all with his "qualifications", in which case if they existed in even a small quantity to the amount he claims he would'nt have asked for such basic installation advice on a plumbing site in the first place.
Stick around, we need ya, and just ignore the clowns in the parade.
"Its your call whether you want to help a fellow plumber or shut up."
Listen, you disrespectful schmuck. Plumber has given you advice in the past, and is simply concerned that even answering your questions and posts anymore might even make him liable at least in his own conscious for someday when you post back here and tell us about the people with third degree burns from your exploding boiler.
You came on here for advice and you got some, along with some very stern and well deserved warnings about safety and responsibility. And you respond with vitriol and contempt because you can't handle a little flak. I call into question whether you are a plumber at all anymore....and if you are you are more likely a first year apprentice. Coming up through MY apprenticeship I had to take a whole HELLA lotta flak from my journeymen and admins...including getting yelled at and treated like a general minion. That's part of the program, it has a great ability to filter out the idiots and knuckleheads quickly out of the trade like Marine Corps Boot Camp. The obvious fact you can't take any at all shows you are hardly more than a rank amateur posing as an experienced plumber. And so yeh, you're getting "called out" by those who see right through your ungrateful BS. And now you are disgusting one of the best members of these forums to the point of leaving, thanks.
How do you like me now?
If you want to make a post like the one you made in the boiler install thread, and ask beginner questions while alluding to seriously alarming safety issues going on, expect strong replies, or go back to washing dishes in Denny's.
what seriously alarming safety ?'s are you referring to. You wonder if I'm a plumber at all?
I shouldn't have asked any direct questions about boilers at all. I thought this was a board where someone could ask a ? without being blasted w/ crap about "If you don't know that yet, I'm not going to tell you for fear the blood of others might fall on my hands". Fine then I could care less. Working in the hydronics field brings me back when I started plumbing tract homes on California. Within 6 months, I knew what I was doing but not why I was doing it. After becoming familiar w/ the upc, I started to understand why I was doing what I was doing.
You bash me for Taking safety lightly and even disobeyng the "code" at will. As far as plumbing goes I know what will work and what won't. Think what you will, but after my jobs are finished I seldom get call-backs. I didn't say never. Never is a long time. I don't use the term always for the same reason.
One reason I may seem a little disdainful is the fact that I didn't come up through the ranks(apprenticeship) with the constant guidance of a journeyman. The company I started for used a lot of specialty crews. You either ran waste, or water or gas. I learned from repetition. Within six months I was running a crew on a housing tract in Palmdale, CA. But it wasn't until I moved back to Washington did start plumbing like a pipefitter. Being able to plumb a house w/out supervision, I was turned loose. I also ran service when needed. We installed hundreds of waterheaters as an approved contractor for Sears.
In '92 I had enough hours to take the residential test for Wa state and scored very well. To this day I have a small problem working an apprentice because I'm too nice. And I do most of the work because most of the time they don't do it to my liking.
With my limited work in hydronics, I'm learning as I go. Like I said in an earlier post. I install it as its drawn. One of my first posts was about some basic boiler stuff. I don't remember what it was about now. But just like whne I was plumbing tract homes in Cal, I know what I'm doing but sometimes I don't know exactly why I'm doing it. If I building needs hydronics it usually has a mechanical engineering firm draw it up complete w/ isometric drawings showing all the neccessary part and pieces. After the first install I worked on, I learned about stuff that wasn't on the drawings. Items like low point drains, ways to vent the air. Some stuff like putting a drain on the chemical feed tank so the water could be drained out so more chemical could be added. Where to pull tees for the wells for the controls, how to check the expansion tank for the proper precharge, etc. These thing aren't on the drawing a lot of time and yet they are very essential. I have always been able to figure out most things w/ common sense. Some things that seem difficult and hard to decipher, are rather easy once you take one piece at a time. Hydronics are not rocket science. In Wa you don't have to be a licensed plumber to install the piping. If you understand basic plumbing stuff, you can install boiler piping. If not so I'm sure our government would say so. Hell you can't even drive a car safely in Wa w/out a seatbelt. I'm done ranting. And I won't defend my actions to any of you again. This board is a waste of time. A person might get some help using a pipe cutter or deburring a piece of ABS after cutting it with a hack saw, but real advice ,oh no. You aren't qualified to ask a question( or get advice) unless you have 30 years experience installing the very same thing you need help on. Reminds of asking the bank for money. They won't lend you any money until you prove to them that you don't need it. As far as being a smartass, I would aggree to that too. I come from a long line of smart asses. You haven't even seen the tip of my sarcasm. Sounds like a typical union plumber. Unless you go through their apprenticeship program and training you don't know squat. Most of the union guys I heard about couldn't plumb their way out of a wet paper bag, yet they can look down their noses at a scab like myself.
While I'm sure AZ, Utah, plumber, and plumbdog are somewhat knowledgeable, they also seem holier than thou, unwilling to help anyone with anything tougher than spelling plumber. I won't post again for some time. Maybe now and then. I've heard the trade will be in trouble soon for the lack of up and coming apprentices. I wonder why- then again I don't wonder at all! If I would have had to work under journeyman like those mentioned above, I would have found another line of work. I'm not an idiot and I won't be talked to like I am.
Boys, save your rhetoric for someone else.
" While I'm sure AZ, Utah, plumber, and plumbdog are somewhat knowledgeable, they also seem holier than thou, unwilling to help anyone with anything tougher than spelling plumber. I won't post again for some time. Maybe now and then. I've heard the trade will be in trouble soon for the lack of up and coming apprentices. I wonder why- then again I don't wonder at all! If I would have had to work under journeyman like those mentioned above, I would have found another line of work. I'm not an idiot and I won't be talked to like I am.
Boys, save your rhetoric for someone else."
well i guess i didn't make the list.
glad i don't do hydronics. although i do large commercial potable domestic boilers. i can't compare a domestic system to a hydronic system. in fact my insurance co doesn't allow for work on a hydronic system.
guy's we've all had our share of differences. look back a few months and see how plumber and i went at it. it all ended on a good note and look i don't CAPITALIZE anymore. i'm sure all involved will move on and get past this.
this forum is for both the trade and homeowner to share and learn from each other. it only works if all parties can share their thoughts, right, wrong, or questionable.
time for all to move on and get onto a new subject matter.
ps. i guess i'm not left out now.
In the stae of maine you have to hold a App. License for up to two years before you can even ask for a journeymens......The details are all here hope this helps you ot some Plumber
3 yrs later????????? :D
Opps haha i didnt even see that Sorry
Most states have regulation and licensing for commercial boiler work. residential is another thing altogether. many states have gas and oil burner licensing but do not address boilers or piping issues though the National Mechanical Code does and your state may very well adopt it. It's always been a bit of a grey area where piping is concerned. There are of course accepted practices and industry standards for piping but few actual codes requirements addressed. Things like relief valves, low water cutoffs, high limit and burner operating controlls are addressed in NFPA publications.